Commons:Categories for discussion/2012/11/Category:Fesses wavy in heraldry

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Category:Fesses wavy in heraldry

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The sub-categories of 2, 3 and 5 fesses are incorrect. The diminutive of the fess is the bar. They should be 2, 3 and 5 bars. There can only be 1 fess. Kiltpin (talk) 19:06, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, category for more than one fess wavy/undé should be "Barry undé"..."of 2,3,4,etc." and should also be in Category:Barry shields.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:53, 9 May 2014 (UTC))[reply]
Kiltpin and @Lobsterthermidor: Has this been completed? Can this discussion be closed? - Themightyquill (talk) 13:26, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, don't think I was correct above as barry implies evenly spaced bars. I don't think barry starts until about 5 or 6 bars. Are there no instances of more than one full size fess? To call such "bars" might be incorrect. I have noticed arms of Hungerford: Sable, two bars argent in chief three plates which show fairly thick bars.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:19, 2 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]
Barry and bars are not the same thing. To be barry, the number of bars and the number of pieces of the field added together must be an even number. Generally the field and the bars will have the same width. If the total number of pieces (bars and field) equal an odd number then it is bars. Generally the bars are equal (or less) in width to the field. Kiltpin (talk) 14:39, 2 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Lobsterthermidor: Further thoughts? - Themightyquill (talk) 08:07, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping. Seems to make sense, and WP articles w:Fess and w:Bar (heraldry) support the above by Kiltpin, well referenced to Fox-Davies. However as this is a fairly arcane distinction possibly unknown to all commons users, could we keep the existing cats but redirect them to cats with the correct names? To delete entirely the cat "2 fesses" may leave some uncertain of where to place shields of "2 bars".(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:55, 15 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]
Thanks, Lobsterthermidor. Redirects (and category descriptions) are a great idea. Can you lay out exactly how the redirects should go? To be honest, I find this stuff very confusing. - Themightyquill (talk) 17:03, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a quick look at the existing cats, and it seems that the categories "2, 3, 4, etc. fesses" are already well-entrenched, see Category:Fesses in heraldry by number. It would be a very big job to reassign all to new cats "2, 3, 4, etc. bars", which would be done by creating a new cat "Category:Bars in heraldry by number", with corresponding sub-cats. All would reside within the main cat Category:Bars in heraldry which itself would probably best reside in Category:Fesses in heraldry as I think we are agreed that bars are fesses of more than one. However the existing cat Category:Bars in heraldry is currently occupied by 3 Polish coats of arms displaying prison-bars, so that would have to be moved elsewhere to a new cat, say "Iron grilles in heraldry". This is a bit of a can of worms, which might be better left closed, unless someone out there wants to take it on as a project. If the above seems logical and correct to you and if I get some spare time I might have a go at it.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 15:00, 16 January 2016 (UTC))[reply]

@Lobsterthermidor: I'm afraid I still don't understand most of this. Is this what you're thinking?

Let me know if that looks right - Themightyquill (talk) 15:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think that this would work. Kiltpin (talk) 10:46, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I've been on a wikibreak: yes, exactly as I had envisaged it. Quite a lot of work to put into effect. Perhaps to be practical we only need to create the new cats and populate each with just one example, rather than move all items to the new cats. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:24, 17 February 2016 (UTC))[reply]
@Kiltpin and Lobsterthermidor: I've started on this, but there are an enormous number of categories in this tree so there are still plenty to move. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. - Themightyquill (talk) 14:08, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ruthven: This might still require a fair amount of manual typing, but maybe it's something can can be at least aided by a script? Any help would be appreciated. - Themightyquill (talk) 13:49, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Themightyquill: it seems that a lot has been implemented. What to do with the 1 fess-categories? E.g. sub-cats of Category:Fesses gemelles argent? --Ruthven (msg) 14:21, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
From my understand 1 fess categories are okay, but anymore than one fess should be bars, (bars wavy, bars gemelles, etc.) The base level has been done, but if you did down, I haven't competed most of the changes. Search for "2 fesses", "4 fesses", etc and you'll see there is still a lot to do.

These last two should be placed in a new category Category:Bars gemelles argent inside Category:Fesses gemelles argent. Thanks again for your help! - Themightyquill (talk) 14:31, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done: Applying consensus. @Themightyquill: , please check [1], and possibly create the new categories when necessary. Ruthven (msg) 14:45, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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