Commons:Categories for discussion/2018/07/Category:Funeral chapels

Category:Funeral chapels and related categories

I would like to change Category:Funeral chapels to Category:Sepulchral chapels in line with the Wikidata item from which it is linked (and the articles in various languages to which it is thereby linked). The item is specific to a combination chapel and burial place. Note that we already have a distinct Category:Funeral homes and Category:Cemetery chapels. - Jmabel ! talk 06:44, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

In the same process, I think we should revisit several other categories. Right now, Category:Cemetery chapels is specifically Christian, because it is a subcategory of Category:Cemetery churches. However, Category:Jewish funeral chapels is entirely cemetery chapels, not sepulchral chapels, and ought to be a child of Category:Cemetery chapels, were the latter not specifically Christian. It think Category:Jewish funeral chapels should be renamed as Category:Jewish cemetery chapels and Category:Christian cemetery chapels should be separated out from Category:Cemetery chapels in general, with Category:Cemetery churches becoming a parent of Category:Christian cemetery chapels rather than of Category:Cemetery chapels.

It is possible that some other changes should happen in this area as well, and I'm open to further suggestions. - Jmabel ! talk 06:52, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

• I see that without waiting for discussion, User:‎Allforrous has moved Category:Jewish funeral chapels to Category:Jewish cemetery chapels. While of course I agree with that, my intention here is to get some sort of consensus rather than some one person plunging in and making changes one of the other ten involved parties might object to. - Jmabel ! talk 15:36, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Yes, that's usually the way these should go. Otherwise you would have just made the changes instead of discussing. --Auntof6 (talk) 16:15, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

• When I hear the term "funeral chapel", I think of the room in a funeral home where a funeral or memorial service can be held and which does not include any burial places. I'd never heard the term "sepulchral chapels". To me, "funeral home" would not be a replacement category for chapels in funeral homes. Maybe the funeral chapel category should be a disambiguation category. --Auntof6 (talk) 16:15, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
  • I have no objection to creating something like Category:Chapels in funeral homes. But the category from which I started here, currently named Category:Funeral chapels, is linked entirely to articles on sepulchral chapels, then that's what it should be, and it should be renamed accordingly.
  • My main point here is that categories on one thing shouldn't connect to Wikidata items about another thing, because it makes for links to the wrong Wikipedia articles. - Jmabel ! talk 20:30, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
    • Coincido con Auntof6. Category:Funeral chapels es el lugar del velatorio. en cambio Category:Sepulchral chapels es el lugar del entierro. --Allforrous (talk) 21:20, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
    • I agree with Auntof6. Category: Funeral chapels is the place of the wake. instead Category: Sepulchral chapels is the place of burial. --Allforrous (talk) 21:24, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
    • @Allforrous: Exactamente, pero ahora Category:Funeral chapels queda vinculado con los artículos perteneciente a capillas sepulcrales; esto es lo que quiero cambiar. - Jmabel ! talk 22:54, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

It's been about 3 more days without further comment. I'm going to do my best to go ahead based on this & sort it out. - Jmabel ! talk 02:43, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

This is actually quite difficult. I have introduced Category:Chapels in funeral homes, but found few such cases. I've removed the specifically Christian parent category from Category:Cemetery chapels. I'm not going to particularly take apart the existing generic Category:Funeral chapels, but I'm (at least for now) delinking it from the Wikidata item that essentially means sepulchral chapels and introducing a new Category:Sepulchral chapels and sitelinking that from Wikidata. So Category:Funeral chapels will now explicitly be more generic. - Jmabel ! talk 03:30, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

• I'm moving things into Category:Sepulchral chapels (or some subcategories by country) where I can tell for sure that the chapel is actually a tomb, but I suspect a lot more are actually tombs and could be moved. - Jmabel ! talk 04:22, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
• It's just too voluminous for me to take this all on. Please feel free to better populate Category:Chapels in funeral homes; I've left Category:Funeral chapels as embracing both Category:Cemetery chapels and Category:Sepulchral chapels (both of which also could be better populated, mostly by copying from subcats of Category:Funeral chapels). - Jmabel ! talk 04:41, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

@Jmabel: We don't have a clear written definition for Category:Cemetery chapels, which risks creating a redundanc with Category:Sepulchral chapels (which, I assume, are usually also in cemeteries.) You're thinking of "cemetery chapels" has public chapels for use in multiple funerals at a cemetery, correct? - Themightyquill (talk) 09:21, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

@Themightyquill: Yes. I'll add a description. - Jmabel ! talk 15:27, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Service: Funeral chapels = Rooms or separate structures devoted to funeral services in funeral homes. For chapels intended to permanently contain individual or family tombs, use "sepulchral chapels." (Art & Architeture Thesaurus Online) --Bohème (talk) 11:44, 14 December 2018 (UTC)