@Joshbaumgartner and Tuvalkin: Widening the scope of the category solely for the sake of adding iota subscriptum seems, because accompanied by the loss of the Cyrillic letter supercategories, unreasonable to me. Instead, I suggest naming the category “Iotified Cyrillic letters” and adjust the names of the subcategories following Unicode's nomenclature. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 22:09, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
(«Following Unicode’s nomenclature» will get us fine examples of terminology, such as the vertical white brakcet or the letter oi.) I do understand you point about parent cats, but either by widening this cat or by creating a new parent cat (which might be premature given the small number of media files) the connection between Cyrillic iotified/iotated letters and the Greek hypogegrammeni iota needs to be reflected in categorization — and that is more important than the chimerical expectation that all parent/offspring cat relationships must fully hierarchic. -- Tuválkin✉✇00:13, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like we reached a meandering consensus among all the sidetrack disagreements. The only pending matter seems to be whether the new parent cat for these cyrillic letters should use the term "iotated" or "iotified". -- Tuválkin✉✇12:56, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All should have consistent dab in name. Standard for geographic features dab'd by administrative division is to place it in () and best to use the most general (largest) division which gives clarity (start with country-level). For the Brazilian river, there are multiple towns in Brazil named Rio Negro to dab from, so river is added. Per suggestion below, dab by parent system may be better than political division.
@Themightyquill: That is an excellent point. I often have wondered why so many topographical features are categorized by human political boundaries. To me it would make no sense to name towns "Category:Town (river basin)" and so it seems equally odd to name a river "Category:Tributary (state/country)". However, that seems to be the norm and barring challenging that norm, I tried to stick within it with this proposal. I would be more than happy if we structured natural features in a natural hierarchy just as human features follow a human hierarchy. Josh (talk) 17:02, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing wrong by using human geographic hierarchy because it is the most clear/obvious. And as far as the suggestions above:
Category:Río Negro (main stem river) is unacceptable since it is still vague - it should be Category:Río Negro (Río Negro Province) (the word river is redundant obviously).
There is a missing defintion what is military equipment of a certain country. Esepcally light eqipment like firearms can change users very fast. At Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/10/Category:FN FAL in Libyan service we have an example that rebels are using FN FAL, but they are not part of the gouvemrent and so not part of the military. But any way rebels with FN FAL fall under military eqipment by country cat. My suggestion is that only eqiment of the state should part of this cat and eqiment of irregular (also acting in the name of the state) shouldn't be in this cat. Sanandros (talk) 22:00, 4 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Joshbaumgartner: I'm not fixed on weather we solve this issue on categorizing categories or on the file level. However I prefer to remove these files from the current category tree. But if there exists good reasons not do so I would accept that decision. But then I would like to see a change in the categorizations of these categories as rebels are not the state. (pls keep pinging me, I'm currentliy not very active).--Sanandros (talk) 21:10, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Sanandros: Equipment should only be categorized under a country if there is a real association between the two. The parent for a country is "Military equipment of country", with sub-cats as appropriate for different relationships between said equipment and said country. The parent 'of' cat covers all types of relationships. One of those relationships is "in" which could be equipment in non-official hands but which is located in a particular country. Josh (talk) 10:26, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Sanandros: Yes, absolutely, that would be the idea: "Category:Military equipment of country" should have subs as needed to cover "Category:Military equipment in country" (depicted while located in a country), "Category:Military equipment in country service" (depicted while officially in service with the country but not necessarily located there), "Category:Military equipment manufactured in country" (categories of items built there). Josh (talk) 19:04, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Military equipment by country of manufacture (content format: "Military equipment manufactured in country") based on the country in which the equipment was manufactured (only needed where equipment is manufactured in locations other than where it was invented/developed)
Category:Military equipment by event (content format: "Military equipment in event") based on events (including conflicts) the equipment participated in (should be limited to actual media showing it in the event, or otherwise event-related)
Applying this to the image at right, of a Canadian-made de Havilland Canada DHC-4A Caribou serving in the Royal Australian Air Force during the Vietnam War and photographed in South Vietnam, it would go in the following (of course sub-categorized within each):
@Butko: If these files are in the category:Gates, it automatically means they are needing further categorization. It is elementary that uncategorized image which is depicting the gate have to categorised by country--Estopedist1 (talk) 18:15, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, I do such review categories which is already added and find out thar few hundreds (or thouthands) files hadn't been categorised by country. So I would like to perform batch task and mark them. How to do this? In my opinion, category:Gates to be categorised by country is the best way. If we place them into to category:Gates, it will be wrong way. At first, is not clear how to categorise files in parent ategory - by country, by year, by color, by matherial etc. At second, files are already placed into subcategories, so we can't place them into parent cetegory per COM:OVERCAT. What is your opinion? How to mark files when batch tasks are performing? --Butko (talk) 10:45, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The advantage of this category is that it gives instant access to all files that need to be 'categorized by country'. Upmerging would result in the loss of this feature. Moreover, those of us who use search to find files to categorize can target this category or one of its subcategories using either 'incategory' (which would also work if the files are upmerged) or 'deepcat' (which would not work if the files are upmerged). I have used such searches to process files in Category:Uncategorized images of Canada and its subcategories. Mindmatrix23:08, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Disagree with upmerge. This will totally clutter up some top level categories. Many uncategorized images may have nothing to do with the top level category. --P 1 9 9✉21:52, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is more logical to have these "uncategorized" categories. It makes it clear that these images are not properly sorted. As I already said above, many of these images may have nothing to do with the top level category. --P 1 9 9✉16:22, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I am in favor of eliminating categories like "Uncategorized images of <foo>", because there is no meaningful difference between that and "Images of <foo>" (or even just "<Foo>"). However, when there is an indication of what topic area is not included in the categorization of a file or category (such as country, in this case), that's different. For example, consider an image of a gate. Gates are categorized by city, country, color, material, and style, among other things. If you know the gate is wooden and painted white, you can add categories for material and color, but then the image then gets removed from the main gates category. At that point, we lose track of the fact that it still needs a location category. I am against putting images in general "Uncategorized images of <foo>" categories just to keep a main category uncluttered. I have supported and continue to support deleting such categories. However, I am in favor of categories that indicate that we know some things about a file (white gates, wooden gates), but we still need to identify others (gates in <country>), as long as the things in those categories are partially categorized. --Auntof6 (talk) 17:46, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This seems certain. We have two wholly redundant trees under each of those categories. I don't especially care which name we use (though I also prefer "unidentified countries"), but we certainly don't need both. @Gauss, Mindmatrix, P199, and Auntof6: Can we agree on that? -- 05:12, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Uncategoried images and unidentified images are not the same. An uncategorized image is merely lacking a category; it just needs someone to look at it and put it in the right category. But an unidentified image is an image of a place or object that can't be identified and will likely stay in the "Unidentified" category for a long time, even after review. In other words, Category:Uncategorized is a maintenance category, while Category:Unidentified can be a final category for some images. Therefore both category trees are needed. --P 1 9 9✉14:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to my earlier comment, an uncategorized image is one needing categorization, whereas an image with a category is (supposedly) a member of that category for which further category refinement is not (or may not be) possible. I created Category:Uncategorized images of Canada and its subcats specifically for this reason. An image in Category:Canada may be in its final destination, whereas an image in Category:Uncategorized images of Canada needs to processed to find a more suitable category for it, either Category:Canada or one of its subcats. Mindmatrix16:18, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that 'uncategorized' and 'unidentified' are two different concepts, though there is significant overlap. 'Uncategorized' also seems to come in two flavors, first a general 'this file should be more precisely sub-categorized in this tree', and second 'this file has not been properly indexed in at least one of this category's indices ('category by criteria')'. I believe all three of these represent different issues with a file:
"This file is not indexed under at least one of the indices of the parent cat": For the example at right, it is not filed under Category:Aircraft by color or many other "Aircraft by X" categories. Since it has already been sorted by type and by operator, it is likely that it will never be sorted by color, condition, location, or most of the other 'by X' categories that exist for aircraft, unless it is added to a maintenance category where it can attract attention. Files requiring indexing should be placed in maintenance categories, but should not be removed from existing categories. Proposed structure for this purpose:
Category:Files needing indexing (conglomeration of all 'to be categorized by X' and 'needing categorization by X' types of categories)
"This file is in the main parent cat but should be put in a more specific sub-cat": For the example, it is in Category:F-16 Fighting Falcon but really should be better sorted into sub-cats (it is already in one, but there are others it should also be in). Leaving in the parent cat would normally automatically identify it as a candidate for sub-categorization, but the example is already in a sub-cat as well as the parent cat, and thus will likely be simply removed from the parent as some point as a COM:OVERCAT violation. While the requirement for further sub-categorization is established as a legitimate exception to the overcat rules, many editors may not be aware of this, so explicitly categorizing it as needing more sub-cat attention has value. However, simply saying a file needs categorization (probably a statement that can apply to 99% of files) is not terribly useful. Also, I do not want to see these cats used as a way to 'clean up' parent cats simply by shuffling off the files to a maintenance category. Thus I think if it ultimately cannot be placed in the 'needing indexing' structure above or 'unidentified' structure below, that the file should simply remain in its main cat.
@Joshbaumgartner: and others. Josh's discussion would be theoretically brilliant but practically needs very intelligent robots to get it working: categorization of millions of files!? Although, for category:Commons WikiProjects it is probably very valuable discussion.
But because it should be obvious that we don't want duplicate system:
step-by-step we get rid of/upmerging topical maintenance categories which consists of phrases (to be categorized/uncategorized/needing categorizing)--Estopedist1 (talk) 16:36, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Estopedist1: That structure is identical to that which I posted above. Is there a particular reasoning behind the naming? I chose the word "Files" vs. "Media" because it matches the namespace that is covered by these maintenance categories and avoids confusion with Category:Media. I am fine with using the word categories vs. indexing. While the later is more specifically accurate, it probably requires a level of explaination to users whereas 'categories' are pretty well understood. Would you be opposed to changing 'media needing categories' to 'files needing categories'? Other than that, I see no problem with the structure you are proposing. As for the last bits, I don't necessarily agree with using WikiProjects as a schema for these, and would prefer the more stable structure of Category:Topics for topical maintenance categories. Active Projects and their members can easily understand which topics are relevant to their projects and use them, but those not involved in projects may be find project-centric maintenance categories harder to use. As for the last statement, I heartily agree; simple "Topic to be categorized" cats can be upmerged and eliminated. Josh (talk) 20:29, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is not a duplication, because they are not the same thing. I agree that category:Unidentified countries is a wrong category name, because it is redundant to category:Unidentified locations. Images can be uncategorized and identified, or conversely, categorized and unidentified. For example:
On the other hand, this image was uncategorized and identified: it was in Category:Uncategorized images of Canada, which merely means that it needs further review to be put in a proper category. The image is clearly identified (and identifiable - hence it should never be put in the "Unidentified" category tree). Moving it to Category:Canada is also wrong, because it doesn't belong there. (I have now properly categorized it.)
@P199: Both are sub-sets of 'needing categories' and if there are enough outstanding tasks remaining for files in either of these categories, they should exist as sub-cats of 'needing categories'. Moving this image was incorrect, it should only have been added to Category:Canada, from which you were able to further add appropriate sub-categories. Josh (talk) 19:48, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@P199, Auntof6, Themightyquill, Joshbaumgartner, and Crouch, Swale: (sorry for mass-pinging) before we can move on, let's solve this uncat vs very upper cat problem. Isn't it really obvious that if any file is in some very upper cat (eg Canada, France, Ontario (as province), Mathematics, Medicine, Biology), then it automatically means it needs further/exacter categorization. Hence, it is same as "cat:uncategorized files of biology", "cat:uncategorized files of Canada". It is very unlikely that any file in very upper cat cannot be categorize further/exacter (hence, user:Mindmatrix missed).--Estopedist1 (talk) 06:33, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. There are many "Uncategorized files of <foo>"-type categories that I think should be merged into the associated "very upper cat". I think those files were created to unclutter or clean out the upper category, but I don't think that's necessary. However, I think that issue in general is outside the scope of this discussion. --Auntof6 (talk) 07:16, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think the concept of "Category:Uncategorized images of Canada vs Category:Canada" is a problem. These should not be at odds, but instead parallel (the first is a maintenance cat, the second a topical cat). If a file under a topic needs categorization within the topic, then a maintenance cat related to that topic is fine. The problem Auntof6 (talk·contribs) speaks of is real and is going to keep being a bit of a thorn. People do indeed move files into 'unidentified/uncategorized/etc.' cats as a way to 'clean up' the topical category, but this is an error and we need a better way for users to understand they should add a file to a maintenance cat, but not remove it from the associated topical category. I agree with Themightyquill (talk·contribs) that further topical subdivision within maintenance cats makes logical sense. These can be added or deleted rapidly as needed to match the number of maintenance tasks awaiting effort. I don't want to maintain an entire parallel to the topical structure in the maintenance cats, but if someone finds 200 photos of Category:Silverton, Oregon, there should be no problem creating Category:Files of Silverton, Oregon needing categories to hold those files pending processing. They should not be removed from Category:Silverton, Oregon until actually processed, however. Once the number is reduced, the maintenance category can be deleted. The user should not have to create the entire structure of Category:Files of the United States needing categories > Category:Files of Oregon needing categories > Category:Files of Marion County, Oregon needing categories > Category:Files of Silverton, Oregon needing categories to support this maintenance cat, but instead it can simply live the most appropriate already-existing maintenance cat in that line. Josh (talk) 19:48, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest creating "uncategorized" categories for individual cities is excessive, usually only the country would be needed. If we keep them in the top (Canada) category then users are more likely to move them into a more suitable sub category than if there only in the "uncategorized" category but it does seem a little redundant to place in both the Canada category and uncategorized images but since its more likely to get categorized better quicker I think its probably OK. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
AgreeKeep Sometimes files in upper categories are there just because there is no appropriate subcategory yet, then I think it is good that they are there. But many other files are just in upper categories because the uploader is unfamiliar with Commons categories, lazyness, or put there because someone cleaned up a category like "Media needing categories" of a certain date or another category with too many files. In that case it might be useful to have such a Category:... to be categorised about a specific subject. JopkeB (talk) 11:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is tool category for photos which could be generally categorized automatically better. Generally least year, coordinates and streetname categories can be added. There is also partial keyword mapping between wikidata and Finna so that can be used for deriving topical Wikimedia Commons categories, but this will need human work for approving the selected categories or some other "ingelligent" method for selecting correct categories as the detail level of the categorization is different in Commons and Finna. Third source for categories are Ajapaik where is pretty good quality crowdsourced data for those.
So category is kind of todo list for future work. I think that those kind of categories are ok for commons but it should be a hidden category? --Zache (talk) 09:49, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Huntster: Fair point, I get you don't mean this category specifically, but even Commons-wide, various different arrangements are used and yes, the 'x of y' format is very appropriate in several instances. I'm just not sure it really is a standard. There are probably thousands of categories formatted that way and thousands more named in different formats per whatever is appropriate for the topic. It is certainly standard for 'aircraft of operator' to be used for that type of category, while clearly in this category it is 'aircraft component' and for others I am sure 'topic (dab)' is the 'standard' format. I have never found a place where one of these is prescribed as a Commons-wide policy so I would certainly love to know if such a prescription exists somewhere. Josh (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just aware of standard, modern practices. Commons has a problem actually getting things written down, amongst its many issues relating to standardisation. It was just a suggestion, in the end do what you think is best. — Huntster (t@c)16:44, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Huntster: I'm okay with closing this as is, or if you really would prefer the 'Components of aircraft' format, I can rewrite the proposal to that format to get this through. I wanted to give you a ping in case you have input before implementation. Thanks! Josh (talk) 23:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
these files are related to "Format audio abadie.jo , Modélisation en sciences"-project or something (see http://www.letime.net/legere/). Maybe we can name this category better, but it probably needs good French to translate it properly? Non-topical category name may be: "Category:Files uploaded by user:9temps"--Estopedist1 (talk) 12:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Andy Dingley: I realize that you quite understandably missed participating in the aforementioned CfD during the months it was open. We can discuss your anger at the process and I guess at me personally in the more appropriate forum you cite. Here we should discuss the particulars of the category at hand and whether it should remain a redirect, be returned to a full-fledged category, or merely be deleted. The reasons why 'interwar' is an inapproprate term for this are several:
'Interwar' itself is ill-defined. Even if we presume that this means the period between the two world wars, a very Euro-centric position, the dates are not agreed upon for those events. Yes, the average European or American student of history may hear 'interwar' and think of generally the period of 1919-1939, but that is not globally true, and even if it were, that is just a general concept as in 'yeah, okay I get what you most likely generally mean'.
Even if we were to arbitrarily assign specific dates to this period (a Commons definition for 'interwar'), then that still doesn't make it a useful category. What makes a tank an 'interwar tank'? Does it have to exist within those dates but not outside of them, does it just have to exist within them at all, or is the reality is that it is any tank that we kind of 'feel like' it is 'interwar'?
The only point of even trying to define the period is to have a place for things that neither fit in 'WWI' or 'WWII' and thus it is just a meaningless title for a period of time only defined by it not being 'WWI' or 'WWII'. 'Interwar' wasn't a thing, it was the absence of a thing (namely a war). On this point, that makes a category like this akin to something like 'Miscellaneous tanks' or 'tanks not used by major powers' or other nonsense category that should not exist.
The interwar period is a crucial period for tank and vehicle development. It is clearly defined, and it is internationally defined. A pair of "world wars" will tend to have that effect. Even in Africa, the continent perhaps least affected by the precise timings, tank development was significant and was following the advances from Europe, driven by the end of WWI and then the re-arming period of the mid-1930s (Italian armoured car development within their colonisation of Abyssinia and Libya would be particularly relevant here). The relevant source material reflects this: tank and vehicle histories will typically be a four volume split: WWI, Interwar, WWII, Cold War. Bovington museum (where you've just removed our specific category) keeps a specific gallery building for their interwar collection: [1]
This is a key grouping, and we should keep it. Nor did you even replace it by an arbitrary decade, you simply threw all into one. And then did it again, just to make sure. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:11, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Museums (and popular histories) use all sorts of arbitrary divisions to showcase content. If a museum has a specific gallery titled "interwar period" then a category could be kept to reflect that gallery. But I don't think alone that makes it a valid basis for general commons categorization. Why exactly does a tank produced in 1920 have more in common with one produced 18 years later than a tank produced in 1938 has in common with one produced one year later? Does a Chinese tank produced in 1937 count as interwar or WWII? - Themightyquill (talk) 21:07, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Museums use all sorts of arbitrary divisions to showcase content." No, they don't. A museum is WP:RS (if it isn't RS, it's not a museum, it's just a shed). So their divisions are those of an RS, not simply arbitrary. The way museums divide their content is our first guide for how we should structure our content.
Wikimedia doesn't (a priori) care what a tank of 1920 has in common with one of 1938: WP is constituted such that it simply follows what RS say, it doesn't perform its own WP:OR to make such decisions. It would in such cases look at a book like Fletcher, David (1991) Mechanised Force: British tanks between the warsISBN: 0-11-290487-4. and follow that. In a more analytical sense though, a tank of 1920 may well be the tank of 1938. Plenty of Renault FT were built during WWI but saw their first service in 1939. The Vickers six-ton tank was one of the best-known of the interwar tanks, which appeared in 1926 or 1928 (depending on if you include the precursors) and served through to the start of WWII, up to the Japanese invasions. This would also be both the tank which China used in 1937, and the originator of the Japanese-developed tank opposing it. A significant number of German tanks of 1938 and earlier were the Panzer 35(t), which were obsolete in 1939 - the development of tank design was so rapid in that year. The Phony War period of WWII was substantially a period of German re-arming, whilst its 1939 tanks used in the invasion of Poland had to be upgraded and up-armoured before they could fight the more advanced French tanks in 1940. Almost anything (except the latest and most advanced) pre-war designs became near-useless overnight from the start of WWII, there was a complete shift (at least on the Western and Desert fronts) from the interwar designs. So yes, the interwar period was pretty crucial and distinct for armoured vehicle design, which is why there are not only books on it specifically, but they even use the term in their titles. We need to preserve these categories. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:01, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Andy Dingley: We don't even categorize our images based on how museums organize their collections privately, let alone the way they display them in galleries. Whether it's en:WP:RS has nothing to do with it. All museum galleries don't follow a single globally uniform structure, but we do. -- Themightyquill (talk) 12:51, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Nominating for deletion seems pretty absurd for me, interwar (as well as Post-WWII) groupings are used by all kinds of military history researchers (e. g. writing monographs and articles) as well as museums (e. g. structuring their exhibits). Ain92 (talk) 12:41, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Ain92: Commons categories do not exist to mimic the chapter layouts chosen by authors or the order collections are displayed at a museum. Themightyquill (talk·contribs) is completely correct that en:WP:RS is irrelevant to this matter. That said, if a museum has a specific named collection (e.g. if Bovington had something they called "Interwar Tank Collection"), then a category specific to it such as Category:Interwar Tank Collection at Bovington Tank Museum would be fine, but it would be specific to artifacts officially noted as being part of that specific collection. Josh (talk) 19:57, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Andy Dingley (talk·contribs) has kindly presented several examples of why 'interwar' is an inappropriate way to categorize tank categories on Commons. Their first example, Category:Renault FT, could well by Andy's description be considered rightly a WWI tank, an Interwar tank, and/or a WWII tank, proving the inadequacy of such definition. Category:Panzer 35(t) likewise could be interwar or WWII depending on one's approach. Perhaps they could enlighten us as to which category a user should place an FT built during WWI but which first fought in WWII in, and by what logic a user would come to this conclusion? Or perhaps answer the question posed by Themightyquill (talk·contribs) regarding a Chinese tank built in 1937? Josh (talk) 19:57, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, being introduced into service in new countries during the Interbellum should be a reasonable cause and a sufficient condition for including in the Interwar categories a serial vehicle. There is no reason not to consider Renault FT both WWI tank and WWII as well (just as it's categorized right now). Ain92 (talk) 20:40, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't suppose categorizing individual tanks separately, otherwise placing e. g. Renault FT in the El Goloso Armour Museum in the WWI category would be quite strange (it was procured after the WWI and we don't know whether it actually did take combat in the war). Rather, we place Renault FT tanks in museums in the interwar category, that doesn't mean that all the particular tanks in the subcategories are interwar ones, just as not excluding Shermans and T-34-85s produced after the end of the WWII from the relevant WWI categories (indirectly, through intermediaries) or including Avia CS-199 at Prague Aviation Museum (TBH that actual example was easier to find than a postwar-produced tank described above) through Messerschmitt Bf 109 museum aircraft in Military aircraft of World War II in museums doesn't make the CS-199 – produced exclusively after 1946 – a WWII aircraft. Ain92 (talk) 22:08, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I lean toward thinking Category:PDF maps is worth keeping, though not necessarily sub-categorizing by location, etc.. PDF maps serve a different function in wikiprojects than jpg, png, gif or even SVG maps. If there's another way to describe that difference, rather than saying specifying PDF, I'm open to alternatives. - Themightyquill (talk) 12:45, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure about moving away from the English name, but () for location makes sense. That said the category is empty, so unless populated it should simply be deleted until we actually have files for it.Josh (talk) 20:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Edit: There are files in yet a third category, so apparently Kochizufan is seeking to merge 2 categories (1 with files, 1 without) into a newly named category. I've updated the proposal above to reflect this. Josh (talk) 20:27, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I requested this issue. Let me explain the background.
For Tatebayashi: There are another Atago jinja. So I believe we should keep "Nishihoncho". But another one is not so famous, so I have no idea if the category of it will be created in future or not.
@Joshbaumgartner: It is confusing, but technically they are not the same thing. Atidim is an official Tel Aviv neighborhood, delimited by Wallenberg St. and Yarkon Park,[2] while Kiryat Atidim is a compound between Dvora HaNevia St. and Wallenberg St. —Ynhockey (talk) 09:19, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Ynhockey: Got it. The fact that this category is linked with Kiryat Atidim (Q2776763) is certainly part of the confusion. It sounds like essentially images of Kiryat Atidim would be a subset of images of Atidim, so perhaps we should create a sub-category for Kiryat Atidim which would be linked to the Wikidata item and article (which appear to be about the industrial complex) while the parent category Category:Atidim would cover the official neighborhood. Josh (talk) 00:22, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"International style is the architectural style often seen in Tel Aviv (White City etc.), often called Bauhaus because of the Bauhaus School. There is no difference between them in this context." per move request.
@Joshbaumgartner: The question is, IMO, whether we use the correct term – International style – or the prevalent term, at least in Israel, which is Bauhaus. Bauhaus is not an architectural style per se, but it is the name we use in Israel for these buildings. I don't feel strongly either way, as long as the categories are merged into one. —Ynhockey (talk) 13:30, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"This is one station, almost no pictures distinguish Czech/German side, cf. the contents of both categories; if anything, a single category might have two subcategories for a few side-specific pictures, with the rest being in the common parent category. Also, the final parent category might be named e.g. “Bahnhof Bayerisch Eisenstein / Železná Ruda-Alžbětín”." per move request
@Themightyquill: I am not sure. In the case of magpies, it is a pretty limited group of files (really one depitction with a handful of images of it) so it is easy to simplify. I suppose a look through other 'animals in fables' categories would probably find others in the same vein, but I don't want to presume. Josh (talk) 16:47, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Themightyquill: Very true. Should a work be categorized under "X in art" because the work contains X, even if some or possibly none of the actual files we have of that work actually depict X? Josh (talk) 21:59, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Closeapple: You are correct, I missed that fact. I've updated the above nomination. In addition those subs that use 'vehicle registration plates' should be moved to 'license plates', but that can be its own CfD. Josh (talk) 16:54, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the initial reasoning to use the older category, but in this case I think the older catgory really should be merged into the newer, as its name is far more appropriate, thus my alternate proposal which follows. Josh (talk) 23:48, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mizaelc: If 'faculty' and 'staff' are considered two distinct groups each should have its own category. If not, then the 'and staff' is superfluous and should be dropped. 'And' categories should be avoided. Josh (talk) 18:42, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is this an official name for a district or portion of Hamina, or just a general description of the central area in town? If the former, it should remain capitalized and be spelled per said official name. Josh (talk) 17:10, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's not an official name, I just had to come up with some English name for the town center/centre when I created the category. The name change is perfectly fine with me, especially if it's in line with other similar categories. In Finnish the town centre of Hamina is sometimes called Linnoitus (The Fortress), but I didn't want to use that name because it might get confused with the actual Hamina Fortress surrounding the centre. Niera (talk) 17:47, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Niera: That sounds good to me. In that case, it is correct to remove the capital letters. I've also noted some other similar move requests and added them to this CfD. Josh (talk) 00:09, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nemo bis and Niera: Excellent point, unless there is both a 'town center' and 'city center' for the same name, it may be unneeded. However, there may be other 'centers' named for the city such as a shopping center, transit center, etc. so including 'city/town' would make it clear what is being depicted. Josh (talk) 19:45, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Niera: Yes, definitely! The move should take place concurrent with closing the discussion. Make sure to add the discussion or a link to it on the category talk page (so future users can track what happened), and add closed templates ({{Cfdh}}, {{Cfdf}}) and a conclusion to this section. If you have any questions, please ask. Josh (talk) 21:43, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"very likely misspelling. The name of the town is "Hundarap" on Google maps, "Handrap" on OpenStreetMaps. Most common spelling on Wikipedia is "Handarap""
This sounds like a question of which transliteration should be used. If there are multiple transliteration possibilities, I would prefer not renaming categories back and forth, but simply provide a redirect. That is presuming that there are multiple legitimate transliterations. If making the case that a transliteration is actually wrong and therefore should be renamed, I think we need to start with what the correct name is in its native language. Then we need to know what the correct transliteration method is for that language and apply it to determine the correct category name. A simple browse of web sources may flag a potential error but is not a good authority on which is actually correct. Additionally, if the word valley is part of the name it should remain capitalized, and if not, it should be in () as dab info (if needed). Josh (talk) 17:22, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If this is renamed, 'valley' should remain capitalized as 'Valley' to match all other such categories and because it is a proper noun. Hmains (talk) 00:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Hardscarf: Are there more than one "Piepke"? If not, the dab portion can be dropped. Two of the images in this category have Munnekezijl in their name, so if that is wrong, the file names should be changed. Josh (talk) 22:28, 17 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You are right. Piepke is the Groningish name for pijp and has also been in use in Leek. However, that bridge has disappeared and only the streetname remains. So actually I think the category could be shortened. And indeed it is located in Pieterzijl instead of Munnekezijl. Can you shorten it to Piepke or should I do it myself? Hardscarf (talk)
@Hardscarf: No worry, whoever closes the CfD can make the necessary changes at that time as part of the closure process. In the meantime, I have updated the proposal above to reflect the changed target name. Josh (talk) 18:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Piepke/'t Piepke is located between the villages of Kommerzijl and Pieterzijl. It is not located in the village of Kommerzijl or Pieterzijl. Certainly not in the place Munnekezijl, which is even in the province of Friesland. The Piepke/'t Piepke is located within the former municipality of Grijpskerk.
The Piepke/'t Piepke is Cultural heritage Grijpskerk
The Piepke, Munnekezijl is therefore wrong and must be Het Piepke, Grijpskerk
When it's only Category:Piepke it doesn't promote commons search.
Piepke is a surname. But also the name of many cafes, restaurants or a disco. I also saw a sports club.
Piepke in Leek.
Het Piepke is located within the territory (and not within the built-up area) of the village Pieterzijl. Grijpskerk is not a municipality since 1990, so that would not be a good alternative. Hardscarf (talk) 20:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The readers (viewers) will look for Het Piepke in Grijpskerk, not where it is now. You can be very strict, or help out the (older) people who maybe look for this, and i.m.o. the current category is the best for that. No further comment..- Richardkiwi (talk) (talk) 13:35, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This has nothing to do with being strict, but just how to proper disambiguate. On Wikipedia we also don't list hamlets as being part of former municipalities, but by actual location. Older people will just like everyone who is not familiair with the subject look for 'Piepke', and thus will probably stumble on the Wikipedia-page first as that is what Google shows first. From there a link is also available to Commons. Hardscarf (talk) 16:50, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
When I look for the Piepke, I expect it in Grijpskerk. There it lay for over 200 years. In 1990 the municipality of Grijpskerk became part of the municipality of Zuidhorn. After the introduction of the BAG in 2008, it was still Grijpskerk in the municipality of Zuidhorn. After 2019 it became part of municipality of Westerkwartier and then things seem to have changed. However, when I read/find about a Piepke in Pieterzijl, I will see no connection with the Piepke that was built in 1802 by Klaas Jans de Waard. Het Piepke, which is owned and managed by Kluften en Waarden Foundation/ www.archiefrijpskerk.nl/. Lidewij (talk) 17:19, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Piepke was built in a period the municipality of Grijpskerk did not exist yet. Originally the Westerwaard was indeed part of Grijpskerk as Pieterzijl was a hamlet and so did not have a church. It seems that at some time in the 20th century (or perhaps even in the 19th century) the border of Pieterzijl changed. The first mention of Wester Waarddijk in combination with Pieterzijl I could find is of 1966. So old people should not have trouble recognizing it's location. So when 'Piepke' was finally named (before it was probably just a bridge) it was placed in Pieterzijl[3] (by Kluften in Waarden, from Grijpskerk), where it is still located. Therefore I still see no valid reason to place it in Grijpskerk. I've lived nearby and I suspect nobody there thinks it is part of Grijpskerk, as you have to cross the border of Kommerzijl ('t Hoekje) of pass through Pieterzijl when coming from Grijpskerk. Hardscarf (talk) 22:14, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Geruime tijd geleden heb ik de genealogie van de familie De Waard waaronder Klaas Jans de Waard uitgezocht. Op een mooie dag ben ik daar langs bepaalde locaties gereden. De gemeenteraden werden al tijdens de Bataafse Republiek geïnstalleerd. Tijdens het Koninkrijk Holland is er vertraging opgetreden, maar na het einde van dit Koninkrijk Holland waren de gemeenten snel een feit. Lidewij (talk) 23:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Klopt. Echter, de oostelijke grens van het dorp loopt niet volgens de oude grens tussen de Westerwaard en de Middelwaard, maar langs de vroegere benedenloop van de Noorderriet. Die kan op Topotijdreis (en de Kadastrale minuut) nog wel ongeveer worden gevolgd ten noorden van De Waarden. Deze niet meer gebruikte loop is vermoedelijk ergens begin 20e eeuw(?) ook als perceelsgrens verdwenen nadat de vroegere kolk(?) ten noorden van de dijk aan noordzijde van de Waardsterpolder (bij de Lauwers) werd verwijderd. De grens moet dus van vóór die tijd zijn, anders zou deze wel ergens anders zijn gelegd. Het pad aldaar is rond 2008 gewijzigd (vergelijk de luchtfoto's op topotijdreis), dus de grens zal in de loop der tijd wel iets zijn geharmoniseerd (dat kan eenvoudig als er geen adressen worden geraakt). Overigens staat de Aeyckemaheerd (waar de brug bij hoorde) ook bij de Groninger Archieven onder Pieterzijl. Ik heb uit nieuwsgierigheid de stichting gemaild met de vraag of zij weten wanneer de grenscorrectie heeft plaatsgevonden, daar zij ook het archief beheren. Feit blijft echter dat het gebied al langere tijd bij Pieterzijl behoort (nog even los van de vraag of het correct is als we wel de locatieaanduiding wijzigen als gemeenten samenvoegen, maar niet als een dorpsgrens wijzigt). Hardscarf (talk) 07:52, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Het antwoord van de stichting Kluften en Waarden: "Uw vraag is onzerzijds moeilijk te beantwoorden. Wel is duidelijk dat het piepke thans aan de Westerwaarddijk ligt en valt dus onder het dorp Pieterzijl. Maar hoe het vroeger was is ons niet helemaal duidelijk. In het boek “Grijspkerk” van dr. W.J. Formsma op blz. 242 en 243 is sprake van ”Waarden” dat op 6 april 1853 onder Grijpskerk wordt ingedeeld. Pieterzijl valt onder Visvliet met de aanduiding C nr. 91-144 terwijl Visvliet zelf de nr. C 1-90. heeft. Wij hebben in het verleden ook een onderzoek in het gemeentearchief in Zuidhorn gedaan maar dat leverde niet meer duidelijkheid op." Op pagina 243 van Formsma staat echter dat de in 1853 ingestelde wijken in 1952 plaatsgemaakt hebben voor straten. Vermoedelijk is de Wester Waarddijk in 1965 onder Pieterzijl ingedeeld (zie het BAG-brondocumentnummer), aangezien we die in het eerder genoemde voorbeeld hierboven uit 1966 onder die plaats tegenkomen. In elk geval ligt de brug al sinds lange tijd op grond van Pieterzijl. De buurtindeling van het CBS wijkt af van de woonplaatsgrenzen van de gemeente. Grote delen van deze wijk (denk bijvoorbeeld aan 't Hoekje) vormen namelijk ook al vermoedelijk even lang onderdeel van Kommerzijl. De buurtindeling van het CBS volgt dus niet de gemeentelijke indeling naar dorpsgrenzen, maar enkel die naar buurtgrenzen, die dus op deze plek geen rekening houdt met dorpsgrenzen. Daarom stel ik voor om toch het Piepke in te delen in Category:Het Piepke, Pieterzijl of Category:Het Piepke (Pieterzijl). Hardscarf (talk) 11:28, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hardscarf, gelijk met de aanzet van instelling van de gemeenten is men begonnen met het het kadastreren. (Napoleon had geld nodig) In het verzamelplan Grijpskerk, Groningen (MIN01013VK1) Kadastrale kaart 1811-1832 wordt de Waard (sectie A en B) bij gemeente Grijpskerk ingedeeld. Op het hierbij behorende minuutplan staat het Pijpke ingetekend hierbij is goed te zien waarom deze overgang nodig was. Het (ruiter/voet)pad was aan de andere kant van het water. Het water is verderop na de watergang Noorderriet doodlopend. ('t Hoekje ?) In 1860 staat het pad als stenen --pad genoteerd. Er loopt weg ten noorden van de boerderij naar het Piepke. De weg langs het water, die er nu loopt was er nog niet. De rond 1853 ingestelde wijken voor nummering van de woonhuizen lopen in de gemeenten meestal gelijk met het ingestelde kadaster. Na de oorlog kregen de huizen nummers per straat. In de tussen liggende 100 jaar waren er mengvormen, waarbij de steden al snel (of eerder) nummerden per straat.
De BAG is van 2008, en het gebied waar het Pijpke ligt hoort in 2009 bij het gebied Zuidhorn - Wijk 01 - Buurt 09 Verspreide huizen Grijpskerk. De indeling bij Pieterzijl is dus van latere datum. Jaarlijks worden de statistieken opgemaakt daar zijn de gegevens te vinden (wanneer je het exact wil weten). Nu is de indeling bij Pieterzijl je kan het daar bijzetten. Wanneer het volgend jaar weer anders is zijn er wel weer vrijwilligers die het aanpassen. Voor mij werd het Pijpke gebouwd binnen Grijpskerk en lag dit ruim 200 jaar binnen Grijpskerk. Geluk er mee. Lidewij (talk) 00:12, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Inderdaad werd de brug gebouwd in Grijpskerk. Volgens Formsma (p. 153): De kunstweg naar Munnekezijl werd begrind (en vermoedelijk toen ook pas aangelegd, op de kaart van 1861 is deze nog niet aanwezig) in 1877, waarna de voetpaden nog in de jaren 1950 werden verbeterd met stro of stenen, maar vervolgens toch verdwenen. Dit pad lijkt echter afgaand op de topotijdreiskaarten begin 20e eeuw al te zijn verdwenen. Wat belangrijk is: de woonplaatsgrenzen en de buurtgrenzen wijken af van elkaar binnen de gemeente. De BAG heeft zo te zien al sinds 2008 de huidige grens (ook bij een geometriewijziging dient in de BAG een nieuw brondocument te worden aangemaakt: laatste brondocument is van 22-09-2008). De woonplaatsindeling van de BAG (opgenomen bij het Kadaster) heeft daarmee al vanaf het begin een andere indeling dan de gemeentelijke(!) wijk- en buurtindeling, die nog altijd een oude (en bovendien geaggregeerde) indeling toont en doorstuurt naar het CBS (ook bij de buurtgrenzen van 2021). De gemeente Zuidhorn heeft dit destijds niet geharmoniseerd en de gemeente Westerkwartier tot op heden ook nog niet (gebeurt wel vaker). De BAG heeft de bestaande woonplaatsindeling aangehouden, die aansluit bij de werkelijkheid en zoals uit eerdere bronnen te zien is zeker al decennialang werd gebruikt. Hardscarf (talk) 11:13, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Klopt beide. De genoemde website gebruikt de kaarten van het CBS, die tot op heden niet zijn aangepast omdat er nog geen harmonisatie heeft plaatsgevonden. Dus toont die website nog altijd de grenzen van De buurt Pieterzijl wijkt af van de woonplaats Pieterzijl, die wel dit gebied reeds decennialang omvat (inclusief de Waardsterpolder aan overzijde). Voor 't Hoekje geldt hetzelfde: dit gehucht is ook geen onderdeel van Grijpskerk, maar valt onder de woonplaats Kommerzijl, waar ook de buurt alleen het dorp omvat, maar de woonplaats een veel groter gebied, zoals bij de BAG te zien. Dat zetten we ook niet onder Grijpskerk. Als het Piepke in de BAG zou worden vastgesteld als openbare ruimte (kunstwerk), zou dat niet in Grijpskerk zijn, maar in Pieterzijl. Beide grenzen kunnen worden getoond in de PDOK-viewer (achtergrondkaarten: 1) Basisregistratie Adressen en Gebouwen>Woonplaatsen en 2) CBS Gebiedsindelingen>cbs_buurt_2021_niet_gegeneraliseerd voor de buurtgrenzen). De bijzonder kromgetrokken grenzen rond de dorpen (lopen niet over de BGT-vlakken, maar random in een cirkel om een dorp heen) geven wel aan dat deze recent niet zijn aangepast en dit dus nog een keer moet gebeuren. Vergelijk deze met de gemeente Groningen (Groningen en Ten Boer: Haren moet blijkbaar nog), waar ze duidelijk wel bijgewerkt zijn. Hardscarf (talk) 19:11, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
more human-readable format, avoids computer file path format; applies to all subcats; in case the same club has multiple teams/sports, add dab as Category:Barbarian FC kit templates (rugby union). File contents of [[:Category:]]
@Blackcat: Thanks for the advice, you are correct this should cover both. I have added association football to the proposal above. I am not partial on whether the subs use "Kit of Club" or "Club kit" format. I notice there are a lot of categories which are in "Club kit" format (e.g. Category:Germany national football team kits and Category:Centro Atlético Fénix kits) so I set that in the proposal above but if there is a reason to go the other way that would be feasable as well. Josh (talk) 00:01, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well, a "Club" is a sports association that has several teams (men's senior team, women's senior team, youth team and so on), whereas a national selection is a "team", their "club" being the federation that manages them. -- SERGIO(aka the Blackcat)00:06, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Blackcat: Understood. Regardless, as far as the category name format is concerned I don't see a reason why teams and clubs should not have the same format. Josh (talk) 18:34, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The architectural decoration shown in this category's only image is apparently a vase or bowl, not a flowerpot. I don't think we need a category for this one image, whether or not it's misnamed as this one is. If we do want a category, it should have a better name. Auntof6 (talk) 10:56, 18 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I too agree. 'Large planter at Casa Bacardi in Palmas, Cataño, Puerto Rico' would be adequately covered under planters. Also the image 'Tutolmin House's flowerpot' is not a flowerpot but a relief decoration of an urn. No need for this category. Acabashi (talk) 18:29, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Flowerpots don't have to be plastic, they can be made of anything. Terra cotta and other ceramics are examples. In fact, we have Category:Flowerpots by material, which also includes concrete. They can also be in places other than on the ground, for example on a table or a windowsill; as long as the function is to hold flowers (or plants), the location doesn't matter. -- Auntof6 (talk) 10:10, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure about merging, since some nitpickers may argue that some glyphs are not letters (such as "₽" or "◌҉") and procede to uncategorize them. However two things are clear to me about this category:
This category is seriously underpopulated (and therefore any assessment based on its current contents might be misleading).
Partly but some images might specifically show entrances (when outside something) and exists (when inside something) so although there is an overlap its not a complete duplicate. Some things (like archways as entrances/exists) don't look any different from either side. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:53, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That would be a logical separation - entrances from outside, exits from inside. Or things marked exit, or exit only, emergency exits, etc. But I don't have the sense that's what's being done here. - Themightyquill (talk) 13:57, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Exits also exists so maybe the intersection category should be deleted though entrances and exists have a lot in common and many will be both depending on which way you are travelling. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:02, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Estopedist1 and Jonund: The parent DAB category is changed to a standard item category, "by country" subcategories for specific meanings are created. In this main category, the architectural meaning seems to prevail. Now it is necessary to go through all 33 national categories and sort their content into national sub-categories, or rename the unspecific title to a more specific meaning. Some meanings may overlap, for example agricultural terraces may be an architectural feature. --ŠJů (talk) 19:59, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well a DAB could be created even if we don't have any files for the other as a category redirect still has to be clicked through but otherwise it can be left as a redirect until we have files for others. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:31, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Lorgut: Sorry about that. I have removed the category. The main of Evolucionapp (a local company) give us a talk, so I included that category in order to organise these photos. As I said, I have removed it; it is not correct to include it here.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lorgut (talk • contribs) 25 May 2020 (UTC)
@Estopedist1: @Jochen Burghardt: Sorry again, I did not remove the category correctly... I though that removing the category it will be disapear from the photos. I think that I have already remove all the occurrences. - Lorgut - 26 May 2020
These aren't 'preserved', they were created recently, as rebuilds from steam wagons (which are arguably preserved). The regular hobgoblin of false consistency seems, once more, to be overriding accuracy. Also Martha ought to be included, as there are three (at least), not two. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:46, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This should be deleted and upmerged to Category:Steam buses in the United Kingdom. They are not preserved, they're simply new builds as buses (they're conversions from old (and preserved) steam wagons).
Category:Steam buses in the United Kingdom contains old photos of unpreserved steam buses, even some more photos of these same steam buses (I don't know why they've been split like that). But what we don't have are any examples of one of these old, original buses that has been preserved (as is common for Category:steam wagons and Category:traction engines, and yet we haven't needed specific preservation categories for those). So why is the only "preserved steam road vehicles" category we have the one with no content? Andy Dingley (talk) 20:07, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose@Markscheider: Per your cited source, "Shandong was initially designated as a Type 001A air carrier during development but was finalized as Type 002 at commissioning". I don't see why we would prefer the temporary designation to the finalized one. Josh (talk) 00:12, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I didnt cite it, but added it as additional information. Every user knows, wp is not a source. I took that as given. Why move: because Typ 002 is a future CATOBAR carrier, and Shandong is STOBAR. Shandong has only minor differences to Liaoning. Hull, dimensions, propulsion are more or less the same. This should be no surprise, as the Chinese reverse engineered Liaoning and put improvemends into the design. Logically so, design of Waryag/Liaoning is more than 30 years old. Hence the Type 001A designation. --Markscheider (talk) 06:44, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Markscheider: I am afraid that your analysis is not unchallenged. Shandong is indeed STOBAR, but is a Type 002. Type 003 is the future CATOBAR carrier (at least at the moment since this has yet to become a real ship):
In April 2018, China launched its second carrier, tentatively named Type 002. (Many news reports refer to the second ship as Type 001A, but an accidental leak on the official shipbuilder’s web page called the ship Type 002, a leak that was hastily—and badly—covered up.) Type 002 is more or less a copy of Liaoning, and emblematic of China’s step-by-step approach to carrier warfare.
During construction and sea trials, the Shandong was known as the Type 001A; however, the December 2019 commissioning ceremony indicated that it is officially designated the Type 002.
Nailing down official type numbers for Chinese equipment when the government seems not interested in officially acknowledging them smacks of the Cold War situation with Soviet equipment designations to some extent. The Chinese government has not officially and publically announced the type number, and thus we are left to glean it from a variety of open sources, mostly non-Chinese. Those sources lean toward the idea that 001A may have been a spurious designation during development, but 002 is the more likely number, though perhaps was only adopted by the time of commissioning last month. There is clearly not enough in the public record to conclusively be assured that one number or the other is surely more correct, but the preponderance of the evidence since the commissioning speaks to 002 being the more likely correct answer. Certainly there is not nearly enough evidence for 001A to warrant renaming this category from 002 to 001A. Thus we should not proceed with the proposed move. Josh (talk) 20:21, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Categories for individual ships of the Chinese Navy (PLAN) have a number of issues to resolve:
They should not include the fake prefix "PLANS" in their name. While some English-language authors may add "PLANS" or "CNS" in front of the names of Chinese Navy vessels, the Chinese do not maintain an official prefix for their vessels. This is not unlike the practice of some authors to use "KMS" for Kriegsmarineschiff though the Germans never adopted such a prefix. Such made-up prefixes should not be included in Commons category names. This proposal removes such prefixes.
Ship names should not be translated to English, but transliterated. See en:List of active People's Liberation Army Navy ships under the "English" column. This proposal adopts transliterated names vs. translated ones.
Chinese vessels do not include US-style type letters in their pennant numbers. This proposal sticks to the pennant numbers themselves.
In at least one case we have two categories for the same ship, most likely a result of the malformed naming being used.
Oppose "PLANS" is not a "made-up" prefix. PLAN ships do have identifiers similar to hull classification symbol of US Navy. See [5][6][7][8][9][10][11]. Furthermore, since PLAN ships are named after places and people, it would be confusing if the prefixes were removed. --星海军事 (talk) 03:00, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support - "PLANS" is meaningful only to a handful of English-language users, and not even to most of them. If I wanted to add a category to Chinese warship photo, I'd never figure out, that it should start with "PLANS" (sooner with "Chinese...", as English Wikipedia articles). The abbreviation itself is an example of Anglo-centrism, and a belief, that every warships should have a prefix - if not real, then made-up one. Luckilly, we have Category:Yamato (ship, 1941), not IJNS Yamato, Category:Bismarck (ship, 1939), not DKM Bismarck, and Category:Moskva (ship, 1965) - so why PLANS?... There is not much danger of confusion with places, like Moskva. However, there are currently two standards: (ship, launch date) or fixed hull/pennant number. When the ships has plain number, without any letter, a pattern with a date might be more appropriate (like Polish Category:ORP Warszawa (ship, 1968), which had a fixed pennant number "271"). Pibwl (talk) 18:21, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support - despite what 星海军事 says above, "PLANS" is indeed a made-up prefix. It's not used by the PLAN, in the same way that other made-up prefixes like DKM, HIJMS, etc. were never used by their respective navies. And in some of these categories, like Category:PLANS_Liaoning_(CV-16), we've started using American hull codes, which makes no sense. Parsecboy (talk) 19:40, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - The suggested new naming scheme only covers the PLANS prefix. Other naval ships are treated as ships and use a naming scheme by adding (ship, yyyy) to the name of the ship. The latter is missing in the proposal. As an example I've looked at the Royal Netherlands Naval ships. For convenience there seem to be some HNLMS prefixed categories even though (the invented) HNLMS is not used for theses ships in other contexts (same as for the PLAN ships). All HNLMS prefixed categories redirect to the properly named vessel's category. In the case of the Netherlands the categories will never be confusing because all (modern) vessels are named using the prefix His or Her Majesty (being a Royal Navy). The suggested naming scheme for PLAN ships does not prevent confusion by stripping the prefix altogether. Adding just a pennant number between parenthesis doesn't solve confusion, only adds more. A better naming scheme could be PLANS Kunlun Mountain (LSD-998) to Kunlunshan (998) (ship, 2007). If the goal is to unify the category names by using these prefixes, it is likely that non-US citizens will never find the correct category. The same applies to prefixes like F/V for fishing vessels there is no way that people outside the US will use such a scheme, they will simply stick to pennant number and name as in Z.575 Hein Senior (ship, 2000) -ErickAgain 13:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC).
Der offizielle Name in der Literatur, auf Wegweisern und Informationstafeln lautet "Kristallhöhle Kobelwald" und nicht "Kobelwald Kristallhöhle". Vergleiche auch die Angaben unter Literatur und Einzelnachweisen im Artikel de:Kristallhöhle Kobelwald. Schofför (talk) 09:52, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am not English speaker, but "in" seems to be more fitting. Btw., we use "in" at the level of continents (Festivals in Europa, in Africa), and in the category Category:Festivals in the United States by city, 8 subcategories have "in" and only 2 subcategories have "of". I suppose, these US categories were created by native speakers of US English. Festivals are events, and the category Category:Events by country contains only "in" subcategories. Names "Festivals of...location" deviate from the general usage, as we mean location, not origin of the festivals. --ŠJů (talk) 14:58, 17 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think that a category for eyes schould not contain directly whole animals, to enable finding Photos which show an eye, not a whole animal. A close-up of an eye and a blue-eyed individual are two different topics! Kersti (talk) 08:52, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, this should be restricted to files where the eyes are clearly visible and can be seen to be blue. They do not necessarily need to be cropped to only the eyes, but if they are too small in the picture to clearly be able to see what color they are, they should not be included here. To the original purpose of the nomination, I agree with merging Category:Blue-eyed animals into Category:Blue eyes of animals. Josh (talk) 21:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Again - the category "Blue eyes of animals" is for use in situations where detail of the eye are relevant, not for animals where a blue spot is visible, where we look for the eye. It is part of the anatomy category tree and needet to show anatomical delails of the eye. I am strictly against merging both categories! Kersti (talk) 09:52, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is quite obvious that there is the mess. Categories above are related to different templates so it is not easy to solve problem(s). At the beginning, probably rational is to keep only parent one: Category:Categories requiring diffusion. In general all our categories should be there :)
Category:Categories requiring diffusion should be populated automatically (e.g. by template) when the number of files in a category exceeds the limit set in {{Diffuseat}}. In this way editors can see categories that require diffusion attention. Subcats for specific topics (e.g. aviation) are fine if it assists editors focused on that topic in locating categories they can best apply their efforts to. Again, these would be populated automatically, and once sufficiently diffused, they would likewise be removed automatically.
Category:Categories requiring permanent diffusion also should be populated automatically, but the conditions are different. Its contents should remain permanently members of this category as they have been identified as categories that routinely require diffusion (i.e. categories into which users are regularly adding new files without further diffusion). I do not think this is as valuable as the first, but it may make sense for some types of maintenance work.
Category:Categories requiring permanent diffusion to zero should have the same inclusion criteria as number 3 above but should also be set to be automatically added to #2 above whenever there are any files in them. I am not sure what the value is to a category containing categories that should not have files even when those categories have no files (and thus do not require attention). To my mind, maintenance categories should be there for pages that need attention. Pages that need no attention should not be in maintenance categories, I think.
Using {{CatDiffuse}}, I would add the template and this would add it to the Category:Categories requiring temporary diffusion workflow. Once diffusion is done (below 100 files), an editor needs to manually remone {{CatDiffuse}} to remove it from this category. In the future, when more files are added and it is back above 100 files, no flag will be raised until a user manually restarts this process from the beginning.
Using {{Diffuseat}}, I would add the template and set the threshold to 100. It would then be placed in Category:Categories requiring diffusion until the file count was below the threshold, when it would automatically be removed from the maintenance category without requiring the additional manual edit. In the future, when more files are added, it would automatically be placed back in maintenance as soon as the threshold is reached, avoiding the need for an experienced editor to notice the buildup and manually re-add the template.
@Estopedist1: Good reasearch. We have evolved a lot over the last decade but this is some good insight still. Are there any particular points from that discussion that you think should be hilighted in this one? Josh (talk) 20:55, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Joshbaumgartner: and others. There is a lot to read. But initially I am suggesting so: we retain to categories:
Overlapping exists. Both are, of course, automatically created via templates. And none of the cases we manually remove the diffusion templates once added to the category--Estopedist1 (talk) 06:53, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Estopedist1 and Evrik: I kind of like the solution above. It sounds like a move towards eliminating the dubious distinction between 'permanent' and 'temporary' diffusion needs. A category at any given time either has too many contents and requires diffusion and should be listed somewhere in this tree, or it does not have too many contents and is therefore not in need of maintenance and should not be listed here since no work is required on it. I get that there are some categories who need diffusion more often, and I think the distinction was made prior to developing a good tool to only list those that actively have too much content. Now that we have that, listing categories which are compliant with their listed threshold seems like clutter in the maintenance bin. Josh (talk) 04:05, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Commons is an independent project which has its own policies and conventions, and enwiki is not superior to Commons, so we do not need to follow enwiki in naming. There are also other major naming differences such as "Category:People from Finland" in Commons vs. "Category:Finnish people" in enwiki.
Agreed with Apalsola, it is actually the name used by the organization itself. There is no need to wait for or follow enwiki, we are a separate and distinct community with our own guidelines and needs. Josh (talk) 21:34, 10 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Eugenio Hansen, OFS: Accusations of dishonesty do no value to the discussion. Noone is advocating that global and multicultural content be supressed. Quite the opposite, consistent naming conventions and category schemes ensure the greatest possible ability for events such as this one to be viewed and learned about by the entire world. Josh (talk) 20:52, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Impor uma língua é ir contra o fator mundial e multicultural.
A língua inglesa de modo algum reflete o mundo ou a multiculturaliedade -- o mesmo vale para o português, farsi, Esperanto etc. Eugenio Hansen, OFS (talk) 11:30, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
original move request by Eugenio Hansen, OFS (talk·contribs) was not clear as to intended name or reason, however, the category name is malformed and should be in English, as well as not needing further dab (it is unlikely this association held multiple catamaran tours on the same day).
1 A alteração foi solicitada porque houve um erro ortogrático.
2 O evento foi realizado no Brasil, cuja língua oficial é o português, por uma entidade de promoção da língua Esperanto - por isto foi usado o nome em esperanto.
3 A Gaŭĉa Esperanto-Asocio pode vir a realizar outros passeiso de Catamarã, seja para Guaíba, seja até para Porto Alegre (improvável) em outras datas.
4 Ao introduzir o nome da entidade não há porque traduzir para o inglês -- como já foi dito a entidade está sediada no Brasil que tem como língua oficial o português e como a entidade é para a promoção da língua Esperanto é usada a forma nesta lingua.
4.1 Se for para traduzir, que se traduza todos os nomes de entidades e organizações:
Clube de Regatas do Flamengo
Asociación Atlética Argentinos Juniors
Olympique de Marseille
Associazione Sportiva Livorno Calcio
Uribealdea Rugby Kirol Elkartea
Eugenio Hansen, OFS (talk) 22:36, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
O formato de apresentação do evento, foi conforme o Anglo-American Cataloguing Rules com pequena adaptação pois existem pontuações que não podem ser usadas nas categoria da Wikimidia Commons. Eugenio Hansen, OFS (talk) 23:16, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The original name certainly requires attention. However, I don't think the new name is very good either. If the name "Kiri mon" is not sufficient and requires the English translation in (), then the category name should just be in English. () should contain dab info and there is none needed here (only one 'kiri mon' category. I suggest that either we use the English name, or if mon are warranted as a sub-set of Japanese crests, that we simply use that name without the translation in (). Josh (talk) 21:21, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I notice you haven't looked at the contents of the categories. "Mon shaped like paulownia" is for mon whose blazon is depicted in the shape of the paulownia blazon (currently we have paulownia-shaped arrangements of the aoi and omodaka plants). "Kiri mon" is for mon whose blazon is an actual paulownia, regardless of styling. This follows the logic of other similar category pairs. For a reverse example, please consider the paulownia emblem shaped like a butterfly. --Pitke (talk) 21:32, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
re: the actual names of these categories: I created many of these categories after the example set by earlier categories. I agree the names are nor ideal, but the case is not not as simple as simply translating each Japanese term to an english equivalent (multiple species have no established English translations, for instance)--furthermore, the crowd that's interested in mon (and Japanese cultural imagery such as seen on kimono and so on) knows the motifs mostly by their Japanese names, as not everyone is a native English speaker, and information is almost exclusively available in Japanese. --Pitke (talk) 21:39, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There are two separate questions here:
Can the contents of Category:Mon shaped like paulownia and Category:Kiri mon (Japanese crests of empress tree) be merged into one? It would seem, based on what Pitke (talk·contribs) tells us, that these are indeed two different concepts. Perhaps over-simplfying, but if I am reading the above correctly, one method is to differentiate by the overall shape of the blazon, the other by the actual plant (or other element) used regardless of the overall shape. An example is Category:Kikkō mon (Japanese crests of hexagon), where there are crests with hexagons in them, crests in the overall shape of a hexagon, and even crests with an enclosing hexagon, and there has been an attept to use different categories for each. Thus, it does not seem appropriate for us to merge all of these into one, and instead it makes sense to maintain separate categories for each of these methods of differentiation.
What should the resulting category or categories be named? This is potentially far more involved and should really be discussed at Category:Mon (emblem) since it should be done comprehensively across all mon. On that basis, perhaps the discussion on naming format changes could be removed from this CfD, and instead, if someone deems it needed, a proposal for changes to the name and schema can be raised in its own CfD at Category:Mon (emblem). Josh (talk) 18:42, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am the original proposer, and I did look at the contents, but I simply did not understand the difference. I have added a scope description to Category:Mon shaped like paulownia. I'd ask Pitke to check if I understood correctly, and amend the description as needed. For information almost exclusively available in Japanese, it would be really good to put it in en wikipedia articles, citing the Japanese-language sources, and link appropriately from the categories.
Separately, this may be regional, but I've come across "kiri" more than "empress tree", and "empress tree" more than "paulownia" in English, and it seems to me as if English is increasingly adopting the Japanese common names for species rather than the Latin scientific names, in most cases. The terminology used by garden centers seems to be rather influential. We may wish to let the terminology settle down, and then standardize it (or offer parenthetical synonyms). HLHJ (talk) 18:48, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@HLHJ: The problem with parenthetical synonyms is that parenthetical info is supposed to be for disambiguation. Thus if there are more than one category named "Kiri mon", parenthetical dab info would be added to differentiate the two. If we put translations and/or synonyms in parenthesis, not only might they conflict with dab info, but also what limit is there to the translations and synonyms that should be listed? Instead the way to handle synonyms and such is to give them redirects. Thus I would say that Category:Kiri mon is sufficient name for this category and Category:Japanese crests of empress trees can be a redirect. Josh (talk) 22:58, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Joshbaumgartner and Josh: I may have missed some policy on the use of parentheses, but we don't seem to have consensus on parenthetical translations (Commons:Categories#Category names, Commons:Naming categories). Given Commons' tendency to English, cat names of the form "untranslatable-name-in-native-language-of-concept (short en description)" are often helpful in actually getting the category used (and it's fairly unlikely that it will need a disambiguation in addition to a translation). In this case the category is sufficiently culture-bound that you can only really name it in Japanese, so we have consensus on doing that. "Kiri mon" sounds fine , and in this case both words are used as loanwords in English anyway; the desirability of the parenthetical translation is debatable, especially given the loan-words, but I'd tend to leave as-is, just to avoid more changes. I'm not sure there's much point in creating a "Japanese crests of empress trees" redir, as no-one is likely to categorize a file as that, but adding the words to the cat description so that the page is findable on search makes sense; we have consensus that adding translations and synonyms to category descriptions is encouraged. So I've added all three synonyms to both pages.HLHJ (talk) 04:28, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Eliminate problematic 'historic'/'old' categories (some items here are actually pictured in active HAF service). Create 'in museums' category as more manageable way to focus on aircraft shown after withdrawl from service but still in service markings. If needed "Aircraft of the Hellenic Air Force in decade/year" categories can be created to show aircraft in service by time period.
No, it shows that Template:F is transcluded without the mandatory "file name". As a matter of fact, that happens often when Template:Own based is intended to show the based-filename, but as well at other templates e.g. Template:Attrib. Sometimes it comes from a 'pipe' too much.
Because it seems too expensive always to perform existence checks all for own-based file names, this automatically assigned maintenance category offers the possibility to remove the link to that file, or to correct the typo. -- sarang♥사랑07:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can tell you that the photos were taken on HMT Idaho which conveyed 23 officers and 617 other ranks for South Africa on 5th June 1901. I'm investigating the actual details of the ship, which can be seen here. -Broichmore (talk) 14:03, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This type of categorisation is not necessary - if need be, then add the licence numbers to Wikidata, don't create categories for them. Mike Peel (talk) 18:42, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well as a category, if there are categories with names that include the licence number of a tall ship, then it would be a valid index for those categories. Thankfully, it does not appear that we have any such categories so this empty index category can of course be quickly disposed. Josh (talk) 23:59, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Peel: Well I certainly agree with that redirect, ships should be under their name if possible. Also, I do not think that most of the contents under Category:Vessels by MMSI number are a good idea. Having extra categories with no real content, but just to have categories for each type of ID that a vehicle might have is a bunch of extra category structure to be maintained for no reason and makes it harder to get to the 'real' category for a vessel. We've dealt with the same issues for aircraft. The MMSI number or license number can be redirects, but they should not be normal categories in their own right. Josh (talk) 18:24, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The month date is approximate. The is the month the slide film was developed. But the picture could be taken before the specified month. In slow moving winter months, where few pictures where taken it could several months before the film is 'full' (average of 36 pictures) and send to the developer centrum. This was by post and it could on or two weeks. 'Kodachrome' films could take several weeks before you your film back. The sequence number is important, because if a picture can be dated by other means, it means that the other pictures can be dated 'before' or 'after'. This is to help future dating.Smiley.toerist (talk) 11:15, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
One posibility is tot merge the categories as suggested, but keeping the files together with adjusting the sort parameter: 'Smiley 99' (99 = sequence number). In that case the sort sequence has to be explained in de category description. That way users can understand the significance of the sequence number.Smiley.toerist (talk) 23:15, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Incorrect category Wkmdjay (talk) 06:27, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
I believe this category should be renamed 'Information boards in High Tatras' and placed under 'Information boards in Slovakia'.
Some files should be moved to 'Hiking and footpath signs in High Tatras' under 'Hiking and footpath signs in Slovakia'.[reply]
@Estopedist1: Agreed, we don't have to follow enwiki, and they list both "High Tatra Mountains" and "High Tatras" as names for this anyway. In either case, "High Tatra" is not correct. At this level for now, "High Tatra Mountains" is the parent category name, but if someone wants to make a case to change the whole tree to "High Tatras" in the future, that would be fine and this category would follow suit at that point. For now, let's go ahead and change to "High Tatra Mountains" to bring it in line with the parent cat and close this one. Josh (talk) 21:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete "disambiguate from port in portuguese"??? Excuse me??? Anyone with a shred of knowledge of Portugal and\or Porto knows perfectly well to distinguish Porto city to any port, even the Porto do Porto. Any portuguese speaker understands when someone is speaking of any port and Porto, Porto is by far the most known of any Porto (second largest portuguese city, a world heritage site, with an football team two times european and world champions). Also 107 wikipedia languages articles have articles without any appendix like "city", or "portugal". An solution in search of an problem. Tm (talk) 23:19, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Again, the same nonsense which can be seen in Praia, and with the same people. This is a project in English, not a multilingual project with disambiguations for every language instance of the terms. Please stop promoting this absurdity around.--DarwinAhoy!23:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose"No need to get a solution for a non-existent problem" - During the 10 years that I worked/cleaned the 'Category: Porto', I only had to remove a maximum of about 20 images belonging to other places called Porto. A rate of 2/year seems to me very low to demand for a desambiguation.--JotaCartas (talk) 00:16, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose In the desambiguation page, there are many items, but only tree items have precisely Porto in title. They are: Porto (film), 2015; "Porto", 2014 song by Worakls and "Porto", a villain in "Power Rangers: Turbo". These tree items should have the appendix name to distinguish them from the millennial city of Porto. Saudações, GualdimG (talk) 01:12, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do we really think that the city is significantly more common than the generic term of a port? Yes most people will know of the city in Portugal but port has 106 Wikipedias (nearly as many!). The project is a multilingual project and indeed there's no requirement that files be in English and in any case the naming conventions only deal with the titles of things not their ambiguity see w:WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:54, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If you claim that Commons is an separate project of PT Wikipedia, and so the way it names its articles are irrelevant to Commons, why then do you try to pass the EN Wikipedia "English Wikipedia editing guideline" (w:WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT) as being one of Commons "naming conventions"?
You proposed to move Porto as to "disambiguate from port in portuguese". JotaCartas that is the one that maked more than 95% of the categorization of Category:Porto says that confirms that in 10 years there were only " 20 images belonging to other places called Porto", so this confirms that this is a solution (desambiguation) in search of a problem (a pretense but non existing ambiguation).
Now you ask if "Do we really think that the city is significantly more common than the generic term of a port"? You have 4 portuguese users telling you that this is so. Tm (talk) 14:49, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note that It:Porto is about the port and several other WPs disambiguate the city. Even still with the amount of other topics there's surely no primary topic. Most other Wikipedias use primary redirects (although only EN has significant guidance on it) such as pt:Hitler. Its likely that have have been more images that were corrected just like with Praia. We can prevent the problem before it happens. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:13, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "Its likely that have have been more images that were corrected just like with Praia. We can prevent the problem before it happens. " is clearly wrong. The 4 users that make more moves from Category:Porto say to the contrary, in particular JotaCartas qhen he says "During the 10 years that I worked/cleaned the 'Category: Porto', I only had to remove a maximum of about 20 images belonging to other places called Porto. A rate of 2/year seems to me very low to demand for a desambiguation". He is the one that performs more than 95% of the editions on Category:Porto, so the sentence "We can prevent the problem before it happens" is clearly wrong, as says 10 years of experience in his case and 14 years in my case, is much more accurate then a simply "Its likely". Please point to concrete cases of the situation were the "Its likely" has occurred. Tm (talk) 14:13, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As JotaCartas, the user that makes more than 95% of the edits in this categories, he said, paraphrasing that in "10 years that I worked/cleaned the 'Category: Porto', I only had to remove a maximum of about 20 images belonging to other places called Porto. A rate of 2/year seems to me very low to demand for a desambiguation". Again, a solution in search of a problem. Tm (talk) 15:12, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's still likely enough to make disambiguation sensible, most images being correctly added to the category is surely because of the fact that the city is assigned to the base name so users who do know the current titles add to here if they intend the city and elsewhere if they intend something else. If this was a DAB people who don't know the titles would end up on a DAB meaning the images could be added to the correct category and those who do know the titles would add straight to the city category. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:40, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
20 images in 10 years, leaves at most 2 images per year, so this is not "likely enough to make disambiguation sensible". The proposed "solution" would be much worst, as would leave many more images in the wrong categories, as this is, again, a solution in search of a problem that doesn't exist. Tm (talk) 18:39, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Without a definition, and viewing the 4 Chinese images Pedro Meier chinesische Tuschemalerei the cat looked redundant. With our definition - you seem to agree with my proposal of yesterday -, those images do not belong here (which shows that there was some ambiguïty). We could even stress the point by adding See also:Drawing in art which would refer to representations of the ACT of drawing (French: dessiner).
I created this category, but I think it was just to blue link it from red link - would need to track down what is populating it to learn more. — xaosfluxTalk11:56, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Probably Keep I don't think notability is generally as much of a concern here. A Google search does indeed show that this is in Barcelona, Spain. I think given the fact location and copyright can be verified suggests we can keep this but if the files are out of scope they could be nominated for deletion and then this would be deleted as empty. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:45, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hello all and thanks for the discussion. Both are companies located in Barcelona and I produce content for them. If the content can be shared for public use under CC license I publish it here and all the content posted in Wikimedia Commons is an original work. As you can see I try to include the files in all the categories that I think can be relevant in a search. I have included the files also in Pixel 51 and Bimetrical categories for organization and attribution reasons. I would prefer to keep the actual set up since it does not hinder the search or use of the files, and it will make things easier for me to keep adding content. Thanks!Xavi (talk) 16:58, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. There's no clear definition here. If we wanted to separate automated from manual lighthouses, we could but I imagine automated is now the global standard with just a few (if any) staffed lighthouses still in existence - in which case, better to make a category for the latter rather than for the overwhelming majority. - Themightyquill (talk) 08:28, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unless we have a definition like {{Old maps meaning}} this is a w:WP:SUBJECTIVECAT since "modern" can mean different ages to different people. Some might say less than 10 years if modern, some might say less than 30 years etc. The existing built by year category is a lot clearer and easier to use/place things in. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:51, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Appears to be an unnecessary category which duplicates Category:Lighthouses by type. The function of lighthouses is universally to house a light to aid navigation. And, to take the example of Lightships, these are ships used as lighthouses, not lighthouses used as ships. I'd suggest deletion and recategorising any contents (that aren't already suitably categorised) to :Category:Lighthouses by type. Sionk (talk) 06:09, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It seems wise to me to separate intended use/purpose/location from construction type. But maybe different titles would be better. We do have quite a few "by construction" categories. - Themightyquill (talk) 08:21, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I believe this funeral chapel cannot be consecrated to St. Therese of Lisieux because she was canonized in 1925 and this chapel was completed already in 1858. I suggest the new name of this category: Chapel of Saint Theresa (Nečtiny) --Zolwikcz (talk) 14:01, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Applies to all sub categories of Category:Vessels by MMSI number which have only 1 sub-category. For MMSI numbers with only one named category under them, the MMSI number should be a redirect and not a parent category, as the later method creates extra layers. Navigating through them requires extra clicks, users may become confused as to which category contains or should contain the files depicting the vessel, and additional indexing needs to be maintained. Making it a redirect makes navigation more direct and ensures files all get categorized in the right place from the start.
Per Mike Peel (talk·contribs) below, MMSI numbers which have an IMO number and support multiple ship names should have the MMSI redirect to the IMO number. This would apply to all MMSI numbers with this condition.
@Joshbaumgartner: This sounds reasonable to me. I'd add that if there are multiple subcategories but there is an IMO value, then we should redirect to the IMO category, as those are more systematically adopted here. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:49, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Peel: Are you talking about categories such as Category:MMSI 211208350? If so, are you proposing that all three sub-categories be upmerged into Category:MMSI 211208350 and the named cats be redirects to there? I did not include those in this proposal, because coming from dealing with aircraft, in cases where the same aircraft has images under different names/numbers, the consensus was to have one parent category for the aircraft with sub-categories for each of the phases of its life: An aircraft built as 01-2345 might later be sold and become AB-CDE, so images of it as 01-2345 would be in that category, and images as AB-CDE would be in that one. It seems like this is what was done with Category:MMSI 211208350 and the like, so it seemed okay to me. On the other hand, I am not opposed to alternatives. Josh (talk) 22:35, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Joshbaumgartner: In the case of Category:MMSI 211208350, we have Category:IMO 9045871 that does the same job, so just redirect it to the IMO category. I'd personally prefer that we just had one category for all of the photos of the same ship regardless of its name, but I doubt we can achieve that. However, we don't need both MMSI and IMO doing the same thing - just use the IMO categories, as there are many of them compared to the others. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 07:28, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thinking about it, redirecting MMSI to the IMO categories wherever they exist would probably be better than redirecting to a name category. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 15:40, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Mike Peel: Of course whatever the main category is for a vessel is where the redirect should point. However, since "Ship name (dab)" is the most natural format for most user to look for, that should be where actual images of a ship should be. Only in the case where the ship has multiple names over time and so we need to group them in a category for the vessel should MMSI, IMO, or any other such ID be an actual category. If IMO is a better standard for this than MMSI, that is fine so I added a proposal above to cover that condition. Josh (talk) 18:15, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Joshbaumgartner: I agree, but view that as a lost battle. IMO seems to be the main standard here, so it seems easiest to use that, and to try to avoid duplicating things by also using other identifiers. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 18:25, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know? Information for Non-experts : Pleasure craft, tugboats, river and harbor passenger vessels, motor and sailing yachts, vessels smaller than 24 m have not got IMO numbers, but only MMSI numbers. What should we do in det case? And the vessel having IMO number has got a different MMSI number before sale 259xxxxxx and after sale 276xxxxxx. Older vessels have neither IMO number nor MMSI number,--PjotrMahh1 (talk) 14:03, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Or redirect depending on circumstances per the nominator. You can also throw Category:Vessels by call sign in there to. As all of them are totally pointless duplication and minutia. No one is looking up ships on here by their MMSI number, call sign, or anything else other then their names. There's no other area where we have similar categorise either. Like we don't have them for stamps based on their catalog numbers, postcards based on series number, or anything else by any other number. At least not that I'm aware of. It might make sense if there was more then one ship per call sign, MMSI number, or whatever. But 4 years later and 99% of the categories still only have one child category. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:06, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I added a german description: Einzelne im 21. Jahrhundert entstandene Abbildungen von bekannten Männern Deutschlands (soweit für sie keine persönliche Kategorie angelegt ist)Category:Men of Germany is very to much populated. The subcategories are for separate unidentified men (Neujahrsfest) and identified but less-known men (Traktorist Werner Liebig) on one side from the individuals you look for on the other side. And to separate noted men of the early centuries, the 19th, 20th, 21th century. Until now I have populated it only with a few. --Diwas (talk) 16:38, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Category:Men of Germany is tagged with the Template:CatDiffuse. It is not very useful to have more than 1000 pictures in one category (There may be exceptions). Ten years ago, I added a lot of new categories, each for one man of Germany if he is represented here with more than on image. Images of men of Germany with only one image per person, I moved to one of the linked new collecting categories like Category:20th-century single images of noted men of Germany. I guess most users are knowing the century of the images they are search for. --Diwas (talk) 21:36, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Naming the pictures people as "noted" is original research. Noted according to whom? These categories should be merged in the parent categories. Hekerui (talk) 16:03, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
See also: Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/10/Category:Military vehicles of the interwar period.
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Strong support that Media --> Files--Estopedist1 (talk) 08:27, 31 January 2020 (UTC).jpg){kind=link}
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Keep. The whole point is for knowledgeable people to keep identifying depicted items and move the files to the right categories, and for the rest of us to keep adding files that depict things we can't identify. I was very happy to see MPF identify my upload File:Turkey Vulture on suburban sidewalk, Elmwood Park, NJ 2017-08-10 132509.jpg in this edit. — Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me 12:58, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
Oppose reverting this category, it should remain a redirect. Josh (talk) 02:32, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Question Wouldn't Category:Kiryat Atidim be the more correct name for this category? Josh (talk) 20:37, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
-- SERGIO (aka the Blackcat) 19:52, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Support since w:UCAC2 redirects to w:USNO CCD Astrograph Catalog so we should place a DAB here. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:56, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
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Neutral nomination sounds good in order to differentiate topical categories from concrete publications; but not consistency with parent Category:Books about horses (look subcategories names)--Estopedist1 (talk) 19:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
Delete "disambiguate from port in portuguese"??? Excuse me??? Anyone with a shred of knowledge of Portugal and\or Porto knows perfectly well to distinguish Porto city to any port, even the Porto do Porto. Any portuguese speaker understands when someone is speaking of any port and Porto, Porto is by far the most known of any Porto (second largest portuguese city, a world heritage site, with an football team two times european and world champions). Also 107 wikipedia languages articles have articles without any appendix like "city", or "portugal". An solution in search of an problem. Tm (talk) 23:19, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Strong oppose Again, the same nonsense which can be seen in Praia, and with the same people. This is a project in English, not a multilingual project with disambiguations for every language instance of the terms. Please stop promoting this absurdity around.-- Darwin Ahoy! 23:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
Comment If you claim that Commons is an separate project of PT Wikipedia, and so the way it names its articles are irrelevant to Commons, why then do you try to pass the EN Wikipedia "English Wikipedia editing guideline" (w:WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT) as being one of Commons "naming conventions"?
