Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Fictional flags of Indonesia

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Fictional flags of Indonesia

Out of COM:SCOPE user-generated flags; violation of COM:NOTHOST, COM:SELFIE, COM:EV. A realistic educational purpose is a policy requirement for all Commons files. All files with no such purpose must be deleted: "Wikimedia Commons is not your personal free web host".

GPinkerton (talk) 18:44, 19 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As the designer of the first file and who made the category, I'm not against the nom. Bennylin (yes?) 16:00, 20 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Per nomination - Thanks everyone for participating and if you disagree with this decision please take it to Commons:Undeletion requests - unless there is a tech issue. Thanks for assuming good faith and happy new year!. --Missvain (talk) 19:40, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Files in Category:Fictional flags of Indonesia

Per the note in the main category there are no provincial flags of Indonesia. Making these fictional and/or completely fake. The status' of the flags are also extremely questionable since at least some of them come from websites with copyright notices. Whereas others are licensed as "own work" when in fact they are based on provincial shields. To make matters worse according to Template:PD-IDGov "There shall be no infringement of Copyright for: Publication, Distribution, Communication, and/or Reproduction of State emblems and national anthem in accordance with their original nature" and it's really clear if turning a State shield into a State flag would be in accordance with their original nature or not. I'd argue not since again, a lot of these are fake and/or based derivatives of derivatives that appear to be copyrighted to begin with. So the images should be deleted as OOS. As well as potentially COPYVIO. The main reason here being that it's pretty likely they are COPYVIO though.

Adamant1 (talk) 06:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indonesian provincial flag is really in use. See links below for evidence.

- https://regional.kompas.com/read/2020/11/25/17362011/jateng-jadi-provinsi-paling-informatif-ganjar-beberkan-kunci-suksesnya

- https://papua.inews.id/berita/provinsi-termuda-bendera-dan-lambang-pemprov-papua-barat-daya-diserahkan-kepada-mendagri

- https://seputarpapua.com/view/bendera-kontingen-npc-dikibarkan-di-stadion-mandala-jayapura.html

Ibrahim Muizzuddin (talk) 08:04, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ibrahim Muizzuddin: From what I understand there's only like 2 or 3 provinces that have official flags. The question with your evidence is if those particular flags were original or someone created them after they were uploaded to internet. If it's the later then they would still technically be fake, despite someone using them IRL. There's still the potential COPYVIO issues regardless anyway though. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Löschen English wikipedia have removed many provincial flag from its infobox years ago, if you guys check any provincial website like this https://www.riau.go.id/ you can see the emblem but the flag are nowhere to be seen.

and also, why does so many of these flag suddenly becomes "own work" with creative commons license when it should be PD-IDGov if they're truly come from official sources?

If you guys want to delete those flags, there are others not mentioned yet in the above nomination :

File:Flag_of_Surabaya_City.png

File:Flag_of_Central_Papua_Province.svg

File:Flag of Highland Papua.svg

File:Flag_of_South_Papua_Province.svg

File:Flag_of_Tegal_City.png

File:Flag_of_Pekalongan_City.png

File:Flag_of_Southwest_Papua.svg

File:Flag of Batu City.png

File:Flag of Salatiga City.png

File:Flag of Madiun City.png

File:Flag of Kediri City.png

File:Flag of Magelang City.png

File:Flag of Mojokerto City.png

File:Flag_of_Semarang_City.png

File:Flag of Yogyakarta City.png

and everything in Category:Flags_of_cities_of_Indonesia

Afif Brika1 (talk) 12:04, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kommentar There have been reports of ceremonial flags of provinces used by the governors since at least 2000. [1] [2]

For instance, here's a photo of the ceremonial Jakarta flag. [3] SVG-image-maker (talk) 14:42, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the second link I meant [4] SVG-image-maker (talk) 14:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per SVG-image-maker. Most of these flags are really in use officially, particularly for sporting events like PON (Each 4-year Week national Games) and Perpanas (national paralympic games). If you want to see the further information, see here and you could see the information of example at Perpanas 2021 in Papua, with its photo. (https://seputarpapua.com/view/bendera-kontingen-npc-dikibarkan-di-stadion-mandala-jayapura.html). 103.111.100.82 08:51, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As several other users have suggested, looking at some Indonesian local media, it appears that these provincial flags are actually being used. Therefore, the claim that these provincial flags are fictitious and not in actual use does not seem persuasive, and I believe that the original requestor made the request without being fully aware of this fact.
It is also not reasonable to assume that the flag is not actually used just because it is not featured on the provincial government website. As you can see by looking at the provincial flags and emblems uploaded on the Commons, provincial flags were made using the same provincial emblems. Therefore, from the provincial government's perspective, flags that overlap with the emblem may be omitted without having to introduce them on their website.
Lastly, regarding the COPYVIO issue, the writing of "own work" on flag files may simply be due to the file uploader's unfamiliarity with the Commons' license policy. As mentioned earlier, provincial flags use the same provincial emblem, so the problem can be solved by applying the {{PD-IDGov}} template currently applied to provincial emblem files.
In conclusion, since this is an issue that can be sufficiently resolved by appropriately correcting the license template, there appears to be no need to delete these flag files. Lee6597 (talk) 07:55, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, looking at the content written in the deletion request template, the original requestor made the mistake of misunderstanding the content of Article 43 of Law 28 of 2014 on copyrights as specified on {{PD-IDGov}}.
According to Article 43 of Law 28 of 2014 on copyrights, “Publication, Distribution, Communication, and/or Reproduction of State emblems and national anthem in accordance with their original nature” are included in “acts that are not considered as copyright infringement.”
However, the original requestor misunderstood that "there should be no copyright infringement" in “Publication, Distribution, Communication, and/or Reproduction of State emblems and national anthem in accordance with their original nature.”
Therefore, if interpret this correctly, the COPYVIO issue can be solved by applying {{PD-IDGov}} to the flag files. Lee6597 (talk) 07:55, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then prove it in case by case basis, your argument cannot be universally applied to all flag. For example, lets imagine a scenario where East Java flag truly exist with proof of photograph, it doesn't mean that the flag of Kediri City suddenly become real. Each case have to be proven, the burden is on the uploader to provide the proof of the flag existence. We have image description for a reason, the uploader have a responsibility to provide everything important in the description (using external link) and provide the correct license.

As I've said before, English Wikipedia have removed flag of Indonesia subdivision from its infobox for years while the neighboring region like Malaysia and Thailand have flag. Yeah, the largest wikipedia are doubtful about the flag existence Afif Brika1 (talk) 16:05, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am simply suggesting that there may not be a need to remove all flag files, and I am not the uploader of those flags. I don't have a responsibility of proving whether the flags are real or not. So words like "Then prove it" should be directed to the uploader, not me. While each case might need to be individually proven as you say, there may not necessarily be a need for those flag files, which have been verified to actually exist and be in real use, to be unconditionally removed. Lee6597 (talk) 18:39, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Not sure how much to say it, but given that those flags are in use officially, especially for sporting events, those files don't necessary needed to remove (per COM:INUSE policy). If some of those flags aren't properly licensed, those flags should be relicensed as "PD-IDGov" instead of "own work". 2404:8000:1037:456:64FC:4FD6:E3A1:5353 10:18, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"given that those flags are in use officially" is not a proof, Wikimedia commons is not a place to store user generated image. Each case have to be proven in the description. And looks like most of them have "OWN WORK" license which are totally wrong. Afif Brika1 (talk) 13:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The nominator and a user who supporting the deletion seems have a doubt that provincial flags are actually exist. If someone remember the National Regional Autonomy Day (Hari Otonomi Daerah Nasional) on April 26, 2023 in Makassar, they're actually have provincial flags in existence, and recently South Papua (sourced from Sorong News) and Southwest Papua (sourced from VoI) have the official flags, and these flags are submitted to Interior Ministry and used at many purposes, especially at Peparnas and PON. So, in regard of this, these files shouldn't be deleted (unless there are counterarguments that doubt the provincial flag's existence). 223.255.229.79 13:11, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Fictional flags of Indonesia

Files in Category:Fictional flags of Indonesia

Files in Category:Fictional flags of Indonesia

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