Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Photographs by Dmitri Markine

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Files in Category:Photographs by Dmitri Markine

[edit]

Per this accumulation of four edits, minus the delete tag: "I would like to exercise my legal right and terminate my creative commons 3.0 licensing agreement with Wikipedia/Wikimedia websites to distribute all the images located and provided to Wikipedia. In accordance with Creative Commons License Terms; Section 7b. 

   Subject to the above terms and conditions, the license granted here is perpetual (for the duration of the applicable copyright in the Work). Notwithstanding the above, Licensor reserves the right to release the Work under different license terms or to stop distributing the Work at any time; provided, however that any such election will not serve to withdraw this License (or any other license that has been, or is required to be, granted under the terms of this License), and this License will continue in full force and effect unless terminated as stated above.

Any website outside of Wikipedia lawfully using(who published) the images until June 1st,2017(this is the last date we want the images to stay on Wikipedia/Wikimedia) can continue using them, as per terms: (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode)

Your legal was notified about this <[email protected]> on May 15th,2017 and we were directed here to send a request for an admin to have this request completed. For any questions, you can send an email to info @ dmitrimarkine.com

Any website found publishing or distributing the images after June 1st,2017 will be in breach of our copyrights and creative commons licensing terms. We can't legally stop wikipedia from using the images,but since it is a distributing platform, it would make sense for images to just get deleted to avoid any future copyright violations from users who thought they can freely take the images - as the files would have to be properly tagged, making it too complicated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmitri1999 (talk • contribs) 22:10, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Here are all the images that are to be deleted or made unavailable for DISTRIBUTION to Wikipedia users/viewers: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Photographs_by_Dmitri_Markine tag: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmitri1999 (talk • contribs) 21:58, 22 May 2017 (UTC)"[reply]

  — Jeff G. ツ 12:24, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Keepo as technical nominator, I just nominated as technical help to the uploader / attempted nominator. I believe these files should be kept because the license grant was irrevocable. If all these files are deleted, it makes sense to also delete Category:Photographs by Dmitri Markine, Category talk:Photographs by Dmitri Markine, and Template:DmitriMarkine.   — Jeff G. ツ 12:30, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep There has to be some certainty to things, and that is one reason why CC licenses are irrevocable. I take the point that the creator is concerned only for use "from now on", but that would be incompatible with the conscious decision he took when granting that licence. Not only are some of these images nearly ten years old, but they are support by OTRS licences. So the permission has been granted consciously not once, but twice. We might delete these images as a courtesy, but I think too much time has elapsed for the creator to say "I made a mistake" rather than "I've changed my mind". If wm-legal have an opinion outside an OTRS ticket, I think it should be visible here. Rodhullandemu (talk) 12:54, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Oppose CC licences are irrevocable.Leptictidium (talk) 13:11, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep as the author himself quoted, once granted, any decision on the author's part to change the works' license or to stop distributing those works "will not serve to withdraw this License". The author can obviously cease distributing the files under a CC license, and they can also decline to license any future work under a CC license, but cannot withdraw his license and cannot obligate us to cease distributing the files under the CC license, which remains in effect. Storkk (talk) 14:52, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello,

You are absolutely right, the CC licenses are irrevocable, but only to those who are already using the material. As per terms of the license and the legal advice of a law firm I am dealing with, I have the right to change the license to any other license OR stop distributing it.

Please read section 7b of the creative commons license in the link I sent. Here what it says:

Subject to the above terms and conditions, the license granted here is perpetual (for the duration of the applicable copyright in the Work). Notwithstanding the above, Licensor reserves the right to release the Work under different license terms or to stop distributing the Work at any time; provided, however that any such election will not serve to withdraw this License (or any other license that has been, or is required to be, granted under the terms of this License), and this License will continue in full force and effect unless terminated as stated above.

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode

I can't take the license away from those who are already using it, including Wikipedia and I am fully aware of that. Any party already using the images under proper terms of the license are welcome to do so indefinitely!

However, Wikipedia is more of a distributor in this case and as such you cannot distribute the image to others under CC 3.0 license any longer as I wish to stop distributing the work under that license. I certainly cannot force Wikipedia to stop using the images, as per terms, but Wikipedia can no longer distribute it to other people under this license( Wikimedia can use the images,but not distribute it) And any parties outside of Wikipedia found publishing(not using, but publishing) the images after June 1st will be infringing on our copyrights with appropriate actions against them.

It may be best for Wikipedia to either delete the images completely or tag them appropriately so that nobody starting from June 1st will try to link to the images or use them under CC 3.0 license , to avoid any legal issues and liabilities.

But as I said, since Wikipedia is more of a distributor, it may be best to delete the images to avoid any possible copyright complications.

All this was sent to the legal department of Wikipedia and we were directed to put a request here. Dmitri1999 (talk) 15:30, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We are using the material, so your very first premise is incorrect. Again, you can stop distributing the material, but we can choose to continue using and distributing the material under a CC license, and anyone is welcome to obtain them from us in perpetuity, regardless of whether it is after June 1 or not, and use them according to the {{CC-BY-3.0}} license. Nobody downloading them from us or using them after that date, as long as they comply with the CC-BY license will be violating copyright. If your lawyers have expressed a different opinion, you may wish to solicit a second opinion from lawyers more familiar with copyrights and licenses. From wm-legal's response, they appear to be in agreement with the opinions expressed here by everyone except you; they suggested creating a DR if you wish to pursue deletion in the same vein that I suggested re-forming a correct DR here (in the second point): i.e. you can request their deletion, but requesting their deletion does not guarantee (and in this case will likely not lead to) their deletion. Storkk (talk) 16:01, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
 Kommentar There's a fundamental misunderstanding of what a licence is. Once you've granted it, it is by its terms irrevocable and is fixed for all time and in all places. You've licensed the images here for use by anybody and there is no way that licence can now be overridden. You may host your work elsewhere under a different licence if you wish; there can be no objection to that. I would warn you that if you keep on mentioning legal consequences you may well be prevented from editing here on the "No Legal Threats" principle, and if you have been in touch with WM-legal, please invite them to share their advice in this discussion. Rodhullandemu (talk) 16:11, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Keep, noting that the CC licence is not an agreement between two parties (viz the author and the WMF) but a declaration to ‘all and sundry’. Hence its irrevocability applies universally, not just to those who have already taken advantage of it.—Odysseus1479 (talk) 22:12, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all. The photographer flagged this discussion and asked me to post here. As I explained to him over email, WMF Legal does not see any legal requirement to change or remove the images here. And that is all I have to say on this matter. -Jrogers (WMF) (talk) 22:51, 23 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perpetual licenses are not legally binding in a lot of countries. FYI, in California, a perpetual contract can be canceled at any time by any party. CC 3.0 allows for a licensee to share and distribute the work and not the license. As the work is no longer for distribution, the licensee can only share, use and distribute the image and not the license. Permission to distribute the license can only be provided by the author. If it would be otherwise, then there would be no point of section 7b.

Aside from the legal standpoint expressed here and above, there's also another thing to consider. Most people who quote,reuse or take work from Wikipedia(eg images) do not credit the author. If you have your own work here, you can do a search to clearly see it. As the images in question are still copyrighted, we have to defend the copyrights and against such infringes(and we have done it successfully,a number of times, in the past few years). It would just make sense for Wikipedia to not have these images available so that no (ignorant) user would come at risk again because according to CC license terms not attributing the author cancels the CC license, making those parties liable for copyright infringement. I am sure there are a ton of great pictures that can be provided to Wikipedia by those photographers or parties who do not care about the copyrights and are willing to freely share the work without policing the infringers. Hope that makes sense. Dmitri1999 (talk) 00:49, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

 Kommentar Again, you're confusing a contract, a licence and a perpetuity. The general maxim is that "equity leans against a perpetuity", but we're not talking about anything in equity here. It's a straightforward granting of rights over your property, i.e. a licence to use your copyright, and the licence is a separate legal entity from the copyright. There is no contract because there is no consideration for you granting, of your own volition, that licence, and neither are there offer and acceptance in traditional contract law because the granting of the licence is a unilateral act. As to whether images hosted here are properly used, including the required attribution, that's irrelevant to the validity of the original licence and has no influence on it. Again, CC licences are irrevocable. That should be an end of the matter. Rodhullandemu (talk) 01:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

^ license is a contract, at least where we are... Anyway, we've made our requests in here and via wikipedia legal as per request of a lawyer and perhaps the local laws. Hopefully, all opinions expressed here are from copyright lawyers to avoid any future issues. No reason to post any further so I am signing out. cheers, Dmitri1999 (talk) 21:51, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: no valid reason for deletion -- the license is irrevocable. .     Jim . . . (Jameslwoodward) (talk to me) 12:20, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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