HistoryofIran

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A gold mine full of problematic stuff

The article -stan is really bad and it needs a complete rewrite. I dropped editing it in April 2023. The article has become like a bloated dictionary page. IP users add/remove any information they want; e.g. some recent examples.[1][2][3][4][5]. The current state of article feels like a blog post representing opinion of users rather than the well-sourced and summarized content. @LouisAragon and Wikaviani: It could be interesting for you too. --Mann Mann (talk) 05:09, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me about this, Mann Mann. I'm 99% sure the removed bit about Ostandar "cited" by Daryaee and Ghereghlou has been wrongly used, since I was the one who cited them here in the Ostandar article, though with slightly different info. Though there's no way the IP (who obviously had anti-Persian and anti-Hazara motives) knew that. So yeah, even the sourced info has issues, which just reinforces what you just said even more, unfortunately. I would love to add it on my to do list, though I don't think I have any useful WP:RS on me to fix the article. There's probably some useful info in the Encyclopedias at Brill and some language sources, I'll see what I can find. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:48, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. The main issue of the article is unsourced materials, excessive details, and bloated content; from its lead section to all other sections. As I said, every user (especially IPs) has added something to it. The intention was good in the most cases but in the end they turned the article into a mess. For example, the sentence "It is widely used by Iranian languages..." in the lead is 100% personal commentary. Section Etymology and cognates suffers from WP:OR and irrelevant citations. And that big table in section Country names in various languages... Many entries are unsourced or just some kind of slang, meme, or internet stuff. To fix the issues, it should be rewritten and having a simple and clean tone/structure like Land (suffix). Another thing I found is -abad. Seriously why it redirects to Oikonyms in Western and South Asia? We have Abadi (rural locality) which is the right choice for the redirect. Someone should look at these Iranic/Persian[6][7] place names and suffixes and improve them; e.g. creating a list, merge or redirect them. Regards. --Mann Mann (talk) 05:36, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to reply to this. I 100% agree and will see what I can do in the near future. Bests. HistoryofIran (talk) 15:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for pinging me about this, I agree with both of you although I face the same issue mentioned by HystoryofIran, namely, the lack of sources. Best.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 21:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Need third opinion for following edits

Hi, I need your expertise for the following pages. I would be happy if you could take a look. Since in Arabic and Chinese, I did not see separate naming inside Temp-lang for each variety of the language, I thought that instead of writing Southern or Northern Azerbaijani at the beginning of related pages, we could group them under the Azerbaijani macrolanguage umbrella (as it was before).

For the literature and language page, I compared it with Chinese and Arabic literature and language, and their written style also leaned towards varieties rather than separate languages.

I was wondering about your opinion.

You can see the above-mentioned differences in the latest reversions of my edits. Instead of deleting or writing blindly, I reverted them to the old edits.

Epic of Koroghlu

Qajar (tribe)

Ziyadoghlu Qajar

Bamsi Beyrek

Azerbaijani literature

Azerbaijani language

Additionally, since I see your edits about the Khanlik era, I was wondering if it is appropriate to keep Azerbaijani names on the following pages.

Malik Muhammad Khan

Muhammad Hasan, Khan of Ganja

Muhammad Khan of Ganja

Rahim Khan of Ganja

Thank you. Göycen (talk) 20:01, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi. I think simply "Azerbaijani" should be used rather than "Southern Azerbaijani" and "Northern Azerbaijani". WP:RS usually simply use "Azerbaijani/Azeri (Turkish)" when referring to both dialects, and "South Azerbaijani" is also historically inaccurate and politically motivated per WP:RS (eg [8] [9] [10]). Sorry, but response to the Azeri names is the same as here [11]. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:39, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I will go through them and act accordingly. Göycen (talk) 20:54, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Ottoman Persian War of 1743-1746

I added that this war was an ottoman defensive victory against Nader shah Afshar because of seiges such as Baghdad, Mosul, Basra and Kars which resulted in an ottoman victory. However the Ottomans lost the battle of Kars and Mosul which hung the balance. Britannan2345 (talk) 17:17, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but in Wikipedia we follow WP:RS (in this case an academic source by a historian), not our own deductions. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Deletion of an article that introduces a new person to Safavid dynasty

Hello, I thought this discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Miskin_Abdal could be interesting to you since you created pages for persons who were in charge of foreign affairs in early Safavid dynasty. This is regarding an article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miskin_Abdal, which obviously violates WP:RS and WP:GNG. Please add your suggestions or comments if any. Deletion page discussions are here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Miskin_Abdal. thx HeritageGuardian (talk) 05:44, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 19

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Fazel Khan Garrusi, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Orientalist.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Thebiguglyalien -- Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir

The article Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir and Talk:Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir/GA1 for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Thebiguglyalien -- Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:03, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Socking

Really? Oh, you mean User:Gilanikmode? Because your diff pointed at someone who's been here for a decade. Drmies (talk) 14:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh yeah. Sorry, should have been more clear. It's Gilanikmode. HistoryofIran (talk) 14:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

I blocked a few more accounts--there is no charge. Drmies (talk) 15:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Drmies! HistoryofIran (talk) 15:01, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Sure thing. I'll send you my birthday wish list; you have almost two months to save up for a magnificent LEGO kit or something. BTW those were pretty inept edits, weren't they. Drmies (talk) 15:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Easy, I have a great Harry Potter set in my mind. And yes they were indeed, User:PaullyMatthews ‎is certainly not putting much energy into staying incognito. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Sock alert

I have just checked your interaction with Wiawolo and I know who they are. Somany ottoman related article claimings of albanian origins and everything This is WP:HEVAL, who notably is "interested" in Albanians (see previous SPI reports). Aintabli (talk) 19:46, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

• Aintabli, thank you. Such comprehensive notes are helpful for us administrators. Drmies (talk) 19:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
  • @Drmies, thank you for taking prompt action. Aintabli (talk) 20:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
    • Sure thing. See section above for suggested rewards. Drmies (talk) 20:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

      Thanks to you both! HistoryofIran (talk) 22:15, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Siege of Halicarnassus

Hello, I wanted to get help from you about an article. On the Siege of Halicarnassus page, it is emphasized that this battle was a Macedonian defeat. Historian Jona Lenderıng points out that this siege was a defeat for the Macedonians and that the castle was only built in It says that it was captured in 332 BC. Can you provide further support and development regarding the siege on this page? Keremmaarda (talk) 13:39, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Keremmaarda. Jona Lendering doesn't speak Turkish and I'm not sure who translated it, so that makes me wonder what the original source says? (The original source seems to be Alexander de Grote. De ondergang van het Perzische rijk). It's a pretty hefty claim, per the sourced lede of Alexander the Great he never lost an encounter. While I haven't looked into the Jona Lendering source, the Siege of Halicarnassus article currently says "Therefore, our sources could also describe the Siege of Halicarnassus as a direct Macedonian defeat." This seems to indicate that the result was indecisive. Sorry, but it's been a long time since I dipped my feet into this topic, I think it's best if you ask the people at Talk:Alexander the Great. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:56, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Ney Vandalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ney

The page is being vandalized by a Pan-Arabist claiming the word "Ney" https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D9%86%DB%8C#Persian is Arabic and the instrument is exclusively used in Arabic music.

If it is within your scope please address the vandalism or forward it to the admins. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.189.149.94 (talk) 17:47, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

I've pursued quite a few avenues so far, but for your own information -

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/504821

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/501050

https://books.google.ca/books?id=tRegBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA58&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Iranian classification by the MET and even on the Syrian derivative of the Ney it says as such -

"Although used generically for folk flutes, this Arabic term, derived from Persian, refers specifically to bevelled-edged reed flutes of classical music."

As an IP user I don't think I carry much weight, but I hope you can help. 142.189.149.94 (talk) 21:42, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

The page was protected for two weeks and reverted.

If you can please keep an eye on it if it interests you.

Hope all is well! 142.189.149.94 (talk) 22:58, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi 142.189.149.94. Sorry, forgot to reply to this. I can see that the article is now protected and in the pre edit war revision, so I guess all is good. HistoryofIran (talk) 16:00, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir

The article Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir for comments about the article, and Talk:Abu'l-Fath Khan Javanshir/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Thebiguglyalien -- Thebiguglyalien (talk) 22:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Guarded Domains of Iran

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Guarded Domains of Iran you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of That Tired Tarantula -- That Tired Tarantula (talk) 16:44, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Sheykh Ali Khan Zand

Dear Sir or Madam, I am studying about this person, could you please recommend me a book about his family? Kind regards Khan Ahmad 2A02:3032:2E0:8F6:984C:3FCA:E924:E8CE (talk) 03:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello. I would recommend the The Cambridge History of Iran, volume 7. Bests. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:03, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

More info about that SPI case

• Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/BaharatlıCheetos2.0

Look at their works on TR Wikipedia and other wikis[12][13]; e.g. this gem. Reminds me of Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Tirgil34; same nationalistic quest, same pseudo-history pov-pusher. Keep watching the English version of targeted articles in TR Wikipedia because they could bring such stuff to EN Wikipedia in the near future. Just wanted to notify you about it. Thanks for your contributions. Regards --Mann Mann (talk) 17:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much Mann Mann. This might actually be the best evidence so far. I'll take it to the SPI and ANI threads. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:41, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Seconding: @Mann Mann, this evidence is very illuminating. @HistoryofIran, I remember noticing you reverting multiple edits that sought to portray the Safavid dynasty as non-Iranian within the past few months. I wondered what the context was for that; now I know how it fits into a nationalistic tug-of-war over historiography. Huntthetroll (talk) 22:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Yup, all thanks to the historical negationism created by the Soviets. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:11, 22 July 2024 (UTC)