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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Muslim conquest of Mediterranean islands

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Muslim conquest of Mediterranean islands

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Muslim conquest of Mediterranean islands (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This is a compilation of wars that are mostly unrelated other than that they were waged by Muslim rulers/states. There is no one "Muslim conquest of Mediterranean islands". It neither describes anything that is unique to itself nor properly covers a broader history that reoccurs among sources as a common theme. This article pretty much synthesizes some sort of a narrative and pushes a vague grouping of events. Aintabli (talk) 00:23, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. The topic of the article seems too broad and without a well-defined scope. It's a collection of various, many of them unrelated, wars waged by various muslim rulers all over the Mediterranean throughout the centuries. Modern scholarship doesn't really treat all these events in a unified manner. @Cplakidas explained it more thoroughly in the talkpage discussion "Article scope is utter WP:OR". Another issue that was pointed out by an editor is the fact that the content might potentially be one-sided, as the article was translated from the Arab wikipedia and uses mostly Arab-language, and many of poor quality, sources. Piccco (talk) 11:07, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I tagged the article for all the reasons mentioned in the talk page, but there definitely are more problems in terms of source adequateness and verifiability, as well as balance of viewpoints presented. To be clear, the topic, if carefully redefined, has merit. E.g. something on the 'Early Muslim naval campaigns in the Mediterranean', if we consider the early Muslim world as fairly homogeneous during the first centuries of its existence, or the Muslim-Christian naval wars along the lines of Ekkehard Eickhoff's Seekrieg und Seepolitik zwischen Islam und Abendland or the multifaceted Muslim experience of the Mediterranean as in Picard's La Mer des Califes, but it cannot be a catch-all for cherry-picked Muslim naval activity that happened between Muhammad and the Ottomans; it should also not be one-sided, taking only the perspective of the Muslims, or treat only the 'conquests' in detail and gloss over the losses in quick order. Furthermore, much if not all of the topic is actually covered in other articles such as Early Caliphate navy (which also has its problems, but at least has a more clearly defined scope) or Fatimid navy. A pity for the immense translation effort that went into it, but IMO this is a case of WP:STARTOVER. Constantine ✍ 15:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this is an informative and well sourced article documenting an established and recognised occurrence in history. I don't see how it's original research to group together events that historians themselves typically group together. Flyingfishee (talk) 17:03, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The events are factual, but the choice of scope is very much WP:OR as being both too broad geographically and chronologically and too narrow in examining the Muslim conquests only, even if they are centuries apart, but not their context, not the intervening events, etc. It is as WP:OR and unbalanced as having an article on 'Indian victories' with events from remote antiquity to modern times. No historian adopts such a categorization or groups these events together in this uncritical fashion. Constantine ✍ 18:52, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Cplakidas' analysis. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:49, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify. The article has all the problems mentioned, although I'm not sure they are quite as bad as implied. The rationale for deletion, however, is weak. Deletion is not an end-around when you don't have the time or wherewithal to improve an article yourself. This is a borderline TNT case to me. The dates in the infobox are not far off the dates of the already cited Seekrieg und Seepolitik zwischen Islam und Abendland. Islands are a focus of recent scholarship Change and Resilience: The Occupation of Mediterranean Islands in Late Antiquity and the works of Luca Zavagno. There is a valid topic here, but the article is terribly unfocused. I'd be satisifed with moving it to draftspace to see if anyone can/wants to fix it before TNTing it. Srnec (talk) 00:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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