Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity

Comment1

The Croatian PM himself said that Tesla was a Serb who was born in Croatia. This happened at some kind of anniversary in Smiljan last summer. He said it loud and clear, and it was broadcast everywhere.

Inaugural dispute

Why not listen to what Tesla says/wants to be himself, and end all nationalist fights there?

He said this on 1 June 1892 in Belgrade:

"In me there is something that can be deceiving as well, as it is often with young overjoyed people, but if I am lucky to realize at least some of my ideals, that would be good for the entire humankind. If those my hopes become reality, the sweatiest thought will be that this all was the work of a Serb. Long live Serbdom!"

And after that day he said to the students of the Belgrade Big School, just before he went to meet with King of Serbia Aleksandar Obrenović:

"I have as you see and hear remained a Serb even offshore, where I am conducting research. That same should you be and with your knowledge and work raise the glory of Serbdom in the world.

Tesla in the west kept always with him The Mountain Wreath of Petar II Petrović-Njegoš, and the numerous songs of Vojislav Ilić, Jovan Jovanović Zmaj and Đura Jakšić. In May of 1894 in the Century Magazine he wrote an article about Zmaj, about the suffers of Tesla's people on Kosovo and the tragedies faced ever since the Battle of Amsfeld and ends with "from that fatal battle all the way to the most recent time, for the Serbs there is a dark darkness, with only one star in the sky - Montenegro".

So just leave it to there, lol. --PaxEquilibrium 09:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Where’s the source of this alleged statement by Tesla? A reliable English-language one, I mean. And we must remember too that at the time (and today, somehow) the concepts of “Serbian” and “Croatian” were intermixed (see this map of peoples in the Balkans/Middle East). So there’s no statement of Tesla saying anything against Croatia or say that he wasn’t Croatian, for example.

And finally, this dichotomy Serbian/Serb, Croatian/Croat, Bosnian/Bosniak is very religious-based and, may I say, very folkish-regigious, very non-Secularist and very un-Western at all.--MaGioZal 11:43, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

So what?! Are we all supposed to even name ourselves the way Western world is used to? If you don't like it, mind your own Western business. :( This is not an insult, by the way. You just can't say: That silly names you're using are so non-Western, and you ought to change them so that they become Western-alike... Please respect someone else's culture, even if it is very religious-based and non-secularist. --George D. Božović 14:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Ethnicity is one thing, religious affiliation (or certificate of baptism) is another

What many people from former Yugoslavia can’t see is that an ethnicity or race of a person cannot be determined solely on religion. I’ve always thought that the denominations “Croat”, “Serb” and “Bosniak” are just tools to (try to) justify what happened during the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s. As a secularist, believe much more in Croatians, Serbians and Bosnians that speak the same Serbo-Croatian language than anything else. The rest it’s just ignorance, obscurantism, religious intolerance and propaganda at the service of corrupt politicians.

Telsa died many decades before all these tragedies happened in the poor and sad Balkans. And by the time of his birth he was born outside Serbia, and was an Austrian citizen from Dalmatia who was baptized Orthodox but wasn’t religious nor Serbian nationalist. And the concepts of Serbo-Croatian, Serbian or Croatian languages were still being developed during the 19th century — the official language of Austrian Empire was German.

So, to call Tesla and “ethnic Serb” sounds very bad to the ear. It should be better to define Tesla as an Austrian-Croatian, Yugoslav or simply Serbo-Croatian, I.M.H.O..--MaGioZal 19:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Tesla himself said that he is ethnic Serb, so who are you to dispute his words. Here are words of Nikola Tesla: "I am equally proud on my Serb origin and my Croatian homeland". PANONIAN (talk) 20:17, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, it’s impossible to me to dispute words with Tesla, because he’s dead. And if Tesla said “I am equally proud on my Serb origin and my Croatian homeland”, the conclusion is that he can be called a Croatian Serb or Serbo-Croatian.--MaGioZal 02:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

No. The best description would be "Serb from Croatia" ("Srbin iz Hrvatske" in native Serbo-Croatian language). "Croatian Serb" (translated into Serbo-Croatian as "Hrvatski Srbin") is rather English (incorrect) construction that is very rarely used (if used at all) in native language of Nikola Tesla. PANONIAN (talk) 19:34, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

But this is the English edition Wikipedia, and in English Language Croatian Serb is a clear and valid term (just browse through English-based media — Google News is a good souce). Even Serbian B92website use it in their English-language pages.

It seems like Serb Radical nationalists wants to mislead, hide and conceal the fact that Telsa was born in Croatian territory and he, although a son of a Serbian Orthodox cleric, was also proud to be Croatian.--MaGioZal 19:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is English Wikipedia and as such it should use "correct English terms" ("Serb from Croatia"), not incorrect ones ("Croatian Serbs"), as I already explained. No matter if it is used in some media, "Croatian Serb" is not best term and it is also misleading. The fact that Tesla himself spoke about "his Croatian homeland" refer to later time of his life when this area was part of Croatia, but in the time when Tesla was born, the area was not part of Croatia. And who exactly is "Serb Radical nationalist" about whom you speak here? PANONIAN (talk) 20:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

And he was not "proud to be Croatian" as you said, but proud on "his Croatian homeland" - there is very big difference between those sentences. PANONIAN (talk) 20:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

MaGioZal, please read through the loads of previous discussion on this issue on the talk page. You've came here and unilaterally started making edits against the previous established consensus. Take some time to review the previous discussions and consensus instead of just edit warring to "your" version. // laughing man 20:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Mmmm… consensus? Or the consensus of the Serb Radical nationalist editors who, using their numeric advantage, aggressive editing-reverting and personal pressure, made the article suitable to their interests? This just not happens here, it happens in many other articles in English Wikipedia related to Yugoslavia and their sucessors. It seems like they, frustrated for being ignored by the Western World Mass Media, want to make Wikipedia their para-political stage, IMHO.--MaGioZal 21:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Is this guy for real? :) --Methodius 22:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Apparently you're a Serb radical and nationalist if you think that Tesla was a Serb. :) --Krytan 23:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

No, but if you clearly wants to completely cover up de fact that Telsa was Croatian indicates many stuff….--MaGioZal 00:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

1. Nikola Tesla was very deeply (OK, maybe not very) religious; he was supposed to be an Orthodox Priest

2. He was a Serbian nationalist (but a positive one, often misinterpreted due to modern Balkan nationalisms that tore apart Yugoslavia)

3. I simply cannot understand when some people claim about people, when they don't know nearly anything about them. If one reads Tesla's autobiography (which I own for example), using MaGioZal's logic I would at once call Tesla a Greater Serb Radical ultranationalist. :0))) For example; one of the most frequent things Nikola Tesla said was that when he looked behind to his life's achievements, he was completely amazed and utterly please that all those things were the works of a Serb. Perhaps he was a member of the SRS too... I don't know, are You sure he was not at the Hague? :D --PaxEquilibrium 00:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

1. Where is the sources of your allegations that Tesla was “very deeply religious” or “supposed to be an Orthodox Priest”? Generally most scientists are not religious (atheists and agnostics nowadays are very common in the scientific community, for example).

In Tesla himself. He comes from a deeply religious Orthodox Serb family (his father an Orthodox Priest himself, a Church existed before the Croatian paramilitaries raised it in the most recent war). He didn't want to be a mere Priest, he wanted more - that's why he went into conflict (originally) with his pa. He wrote that in his autobiography (you should already know this...). He was religious (I remember the article connecting the lightning and God.. philosophically ;). Yeah, it's common, but remember that Nikola Tesla was a Serb nationalist. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

2. Where is the sources of your allegations that Tesla was “Serb nationalist”? (Please cite at least one in English — and not from Project Rastko — since I don’t understand Serbo-Croatian language)

Sources are - in Tesla. You'll actually have to know something regarding Tesla to debate here, pal. ;) Btw, for the nth time, read his autobiography. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

3. I would never say that Tesla was a “Radical Serb Nationalist” since I never knew anything related to that, just because his family was from Serbian Orthodox Church. And he was born, lived and died decades before the tragic Serbian-Radical adventures of the Yugoslav Wars and the now dead Republic of Serbian Krajina.--MaGioZal 11:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The Radical Party existed back then... ;) Oh and you just said that for several Wikipedian users, who're not members of SRS neither are even (Serbian) nationalists. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

4. And to finalize, I would like to say that the notions of “ethnicity” and “nationality” in the former Yugoslav lands are quite different from the Western World notions in general and The Americas notions in particular. In these regions, the “ethnicity” and “nationality” are defined much more in a territorial (see jus soli) and mother language basis than religious or other folkish affiliations. In USA and in my country Brazil, it doesn’t matter if you’re Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Atheist or descendant of Polish, Italian, German, Native American, African or whatever — if you are born in the country and speaks the main language of the country, you’re considered a full national citizen of that country with no restrictions, period.

And the Western World does not have the "final wor(l)d" (heh) just because Tesla spent a lot of time there. :) And what do you propose for the final solution then, Austro-Hungarian American scientist? :) --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

5. All these discussions about Tesla’s nationality remembers me much the same thing that happened with Nicolaus Copernicus: he was born, lived and died many years before the creation of the nation-states of Germany and Poland, but because of the many wars fought by Poles and Germans until 1945 the nationality of the Astronomer was a matter of dispute between these two countries.--MaGioZal 11:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Nothing similar. Copernicus comes from a mixed marriage (and Germanics and Slavs are two different races - the lack of German and Polish nations [however you see it] makes no importance). As it's said, "transnational" Ost-Slavic-German. Tesla was neither of the two. He's a Serb and a globalist. --PaxEquilibrium 00:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

TESLA IS NOT AN SERBIAN

'SHAME ON YOU!!!' You are supposed to be the greatest encyclopedia but you have written that Nikola Tesla was a Serbian. So, I'll tell (AND TRY TO TEACH YOU!?) you something about Tesla. He was born in place called Smiljan wich is in CROATIA and was back then, and he lived there, only thing that relates him to Serbia are his parents who were Serbians LIVING also in Croatia. So, I suppose that some of you have parents wich are from a different state, but, do you feel that you are from there too? Tesla himself was allways saying that he honours his origins, but his country and home was only CROATIA. So, please, try to change that becouse it offends Croatian people wich wellcomed his parents and whos land gaved life to Tesla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.131.55.17 (talk • contribs)

Its’s interesting thing is that the comment above was made from someone whose IP came from a Zagreb ISP, while the other IP that deleted the same comment came from a Belgrade ISP. It seems like that though the Serbian-Croatian War ended in 1995, the war goes on and on forever here in Wikipedia… anyway, I generally agree with the Zagreb anonymous guy.--MaGioZal 14:02, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean "depressing" rather than "interesting". Nationalist disputes make up some of the more tedious lame edit wars on Wikipedia. Chris Cunningham 14:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Let me teach you something. Tesla's parents were not from Serbia. They were born and lived and died there, in the Military Frontier region of Austria-Hungary. And they were Serbs by ethnicity, just like Tesla was. (Let me cite one other user from Wikipedia: "If your parents were Croats you can't be a chiuaua!" Same goes for Serbs.) Moreover, in the time when Tesla was born, Smiljan and the entire Military Frontier was not part of Croatia! It was under the direct jurisdiction of the Austrian court. Tesla's birthplace is only part of Croatia now. He was not a Croat (as we was a Serb and so were his parents), and he was not a Croatian either (as he wasn't born and didn't live in Croatia). Now, is that clear? >:( (And I am not surprised that pointing Tesla's Serbian ethnicity "offends Croatian people". That statement is fully racist and fascist and totally not appropriate.) --Djordje D. Božović 17:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but I think you have nothing to tech me.

Let’s analyze your claims:

Let me cite one other user from Wikipedia: "If your parents were Croats you can't be a chiuaua!" Same goes for Serbs.

Sorry, but this is just a monolithic concept of ethnicity that doesn’t fit the reality. Is easy trick to compare different ethnicities with differences, but in fact human migrations and intermarriage are things that was always common in humanity, and more and more today. And as I said above, one of the few places in the Europe where religions equals with “ethnicity” is on former Yugoslavia. And even in this way, before the Yugoslav Wars (and most specifically Bosnian War ) the intermarriage between Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim Yugoslavs (or Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks) were quite common.

And above any consideration about “ethnicity” and “nationality”, mixed race and multi-ethnic persons does exist (and let’s remember that there’s multiple citizenship, syncretism, and religious conversions alll around the world, too). The idea that “ethnicities cannot mix” reminds me of bad things like Madison Grant’s One-drop theory, ethnic cleansing, genocide and… nazi-fascism.

Moreover, in the time when Tesla was born, Smiljan and the entire Military Frontier was not part of Croatia! It was under the direct jurisdiction of the Austrian court.

Before the Compromise of 1867 after Austrian-Prussian War, all the territory of the Austrian Empire were in one way or another under direct control of the Austrian government in Vienna. And let me show this map of the Balkans at the year that Tesla was born. As you can see on it, and in many other maps of Perry-Castañeda_Library_Map_Collection, the area where the scientist was born was called in the maps “Croatia”, even when it was located in the Military Frontier. And at that time, the portion of Austrian-administered territory around Gospic was called Kroatische Militärgrenze, since at that time there was Slavonia, Dalmatia and Croatia proper provinces in the Austrian Empire, each one with their respective Military Frontier region.

And the fact is that the region where Tesla was born is part of the historical Croatian lands many centuries before, since the end of Middle Ages through Austrian Empire through First Yugoslavia (Banovina of Croatia), Second Yugoslavia (S.F.R. Croatia) and the modern-day Croatia — the only time that the region was a “Serb state” was during less than four years, in the infamous and illegal Milosevic-supported Republic of Serb Krajina.

I don’t know if the radical Serb nationalists that are here in Wikipedia were affected or not or fighted during the Yugoslav Wars (well, I don’t!…;-)), but the fact is that Smiljan were and is Croatian. And Tesla, though somehow affiliated to the Serb Orthodox Church, was Croatian. And there’s no contradiction or impossibility in this fact.--MaGioZal 19:22, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

You could also say that Tesla was born in a "Serb state" - the Military Frontier. ;) And in the end, what precisely do you want - to be named by his home country? Why don't you then just propose "Austro-Hungarian American scientist"? ;) And no, Smiljan wasn't Croatian, nor was Tesla Croatian according to your own logic - they were Austro-Hungarian. --PaxEquilibrium 00:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be missing the point. The only way Tesla could be considered Croatian would be by nationality. But Croatia was not a nation at the time of his birth. Story over. If you want to get technical, Serbia didn't exist as a nation then either: he was Austrian by nationality as a subject of the Austrian Empire. GlassFET 20:59, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm getting a little worn out by Serbian and Croat nationalist teachers. The article lead is accurate. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 18:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the lead is accurate, though it makes me wish that Serbo-Croatian were an ethnic designator and not just a language. Bah! GlassFET 19:12, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Let's just clear one thing out. When the Serb-populated Military Frontier was created, it was excerpted from the territory of the former Kingdom of Croatia. So, Smiljan was not within Croatia at that time. And Tesla was not only "somehow affiliated to the Serbian Orthodox Church" - he was simply a Serb himself. By ethnicity, by religion, by ancestry... It seems that it would be much easier if he was a Vietnamese than a Serb. Is this Serbophobia of what? --George D. Božović 13:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

GlassFET, what do you consider by "a nation's existing" (which criteria)? --PaxEquilibrium 18:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Having an independent existance recognized as sovereign by its neighbors and other countries. For example, it would be meaningless to refer to someone born prior to 1776 as having been born a citizen of the United States, because the US didn't yet exist. Regardless of prior Kingdoms, etc. the issue is, what country effectively governed the territory at the time of Tesla's birth. That political entity was Austria. GlassFET 20:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

How about having a de facto independent semi-recognized (including by its sovereign) country? --PaxEquilibrium 16:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

That's not a nation. We are talking about nationality here. Sorry. GlassFET 18:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I could hardly say Bulgaria became a nation in 1908 just because it became a Kingdom (Czarinate?) then and officially detached itself from the Ottoman Empire? I think it existed "as a nation" far earlier than that. --PaxEquilibrium 20:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Tesla

Let us all clear this out.Tesla is by all means half croat-half serbian-half american scientist.Anyway he was born in Smiljan which is Croatian teritory today like it was before.His both parent were born in Lika.His grandparents are maybe serbs but that doesn't make him or his parents serbs.Tesla was a great scientist so let us all respect him.He doesn't have enough respect today like edison or some similar scinetists so we shouldn't argue about his nationality.One more thing I have seen that someone said. Why... are so many Serbocroats/Yugoslavs nationalist crackpots who fight over the "nationality" of someone who was clearly a cosmopolitan, at a time when none of their states even existed? If Nikola could read these inanities the only thing he'd be proud of is having escaped from Europe. Hear, hear! Nationality is not an intrinsic property. It's accidental, it's a mere label. Wake up you silly balkan people. The rest of the civilized world has moved beyond petty tribalism since WW1. Our states existed at that time if you didn't know. Yeah since ww1,and who started ww2,rest of the civilized world if i am not wrong.

Tesla was not a Croat. Tesla was a Serb. These two are facts and I really can't see why is it such a problem to accept that. (Indeed!) There are many Serbs who were born in what is now Croatia (or what even was Croatia at the time of their birth, unlike Tesla's), but that doesn't make them Croats (perhaps it does make them Croatians, the citizens of Croatia, but certainly not Croats in ethnic sense), and it also doesn't prevent them of being Serbs by ethnicity. There are also some Croats born in what is now Serbia, and there should be no problem with that, too. --George D. Božović 14:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment from main talk

(mv'ing this here ... J. D. Redding 04:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC))

When it comes about Tesla’s nationality everyone says things that are not true. Nobody knows the truth or accept the truth. They say he is either Serbian or Croatian but in fact he is an Istro-Romanian!

His original last name was Draghici, but over the years this name got replaced by his nickname “Tesla” (tesla – Romanian therm for adze ) because Nikola’s family were carpeters.

Henry Coandă has presented him as a „bănăţean” from Serbian Banat but he was a Istro-Romanian. Current revision - Scipione01 17:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Clear it!!!!!!!

It would be easier if you would just put serbo-croatian scientist.But no,wikipedia needs to complicate things.Why don't you put also austrian scientist.One more thing i would shut down croatian and bosnian wikipedia because they said that he was born in Croatia.Oh my god how could they do such a thing,maybe because he really was born in Croatia and that is the fact.That doesn't make him a serb because Croatia is not Serbia.Just put serbo-croatian scientist because that is the most correct.

It is not. Tesla never said anything like: "I am Serbo-Croatian." He strictly declared as Serb. Being born in what is today Croatia does not prevent him of being Serb by ethnicity. --George D. Božović 18:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

......

What can't you understand,he never said that he is a serb,he said:"ponosan sam svojim srpskim rodom i svojom hrvatskom domovinom".Why is it hard for all of you to understand this.He said that his motherland is Croatia,he had only Serb ancestry because of his roots.His grandmother was a croat,he has never been in Serbia, and Lika the Teslas birthplace was always a Croatian teritory.

Four things, please:

First, you don't have to be in Serbia in order to be a Serb. :D And you know, the quote you mention is not the only thing Tesla ever said. While visiting Belgrade (so, he has been in Serbia at least once ;)) he said: "Najviše sam ponosan na to što je sve što sam u životu uradio djelo jednog Srbina." --George D. Božović 15:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Second, at the time of Tesla's birth Lika was actually not part of Croatia. It was part of the Serb-populated Military Frontier within Austria-Hungary and it was excerpted from the territory of the former Croatian Kingdom. By the way, the Military Frontier had Serb majority all until 1990s. --George D. Božović 15:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Third, I really can't tell what ethnicity was one of Tesla's grandmothers, but it is well-known that both of Tesla's parents were Serbs. As you probably know, both Tesla's father and Tesla's grandfather from his mother's side were Serbian Orthodox priests. --George D. Božović 15:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

And finally fourth, even though Tesla was born in what is now Croatia, and even though he liked his Croatian motherland, that really does not make him a Croat... You can be born in, let's say, France and you can like your country, but you don't need to be French. You can as well freely be Algerian. --George D. Božović

The place of birth should be in the first paragraph

At the very least we should mention he was born in croatia upfront. It's ridiculous not to mention his place of birth at the very begining of his bio. Even if you're a stark raving serb nationalist, you have to acknowledge that he was *physically* born in croatia. If you later want to go on and say he was the archetypical Serb, go on by all means, but do *mention* where he was born. Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Please read all the above discussion. He was not born in Croatia, because Croatia did not exist as an independent country at the time. The consensus is that this level of detail is not needed. GlassFET 17:44, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Consensus? Where was the voting done? If there wasn't a vote, I suggest that it might be a good idea to do so. Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

This is how the Tesla Memorial Society of New York handles the question of Tesla's origin: "Nikola Tesla was born on July 10, 1856 in Smiljan, Lika, which was then part of the Austo-Hungarian Empire, region of Croatia. His father, Milutin Tesla was a Serbian Orthodox Priest and his mother Djuka Mandic was an inventor in her own right of household appliances." Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

It would be much easier if he had been a Chinese instead of being simply Serb, wouldn't it? I really can't understand why is it so difficult to say: Nikola Tesla was a Serb. Why does everyone here keep inventing some weird proposals and keep trying to avoid saying simply Serb? Does it hurt that much? --George D. Božović 19:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Apparently it is equally difficult to say "Nikola Tesla was born in Smiljan, Lika , Croatia". Evidently this is stupid nationalistic bickering, but even so, why not let both sides be at peace by mentioning both his ethnic origin and his place of birth upfront. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frankman (talk • contribs)

I personally have nothing against mentioning Nikola Tesla's birthplace. However, what seems that you have probably forgotten is the fact that Nikola Tesla was not born in Croatia, was he? --George D. Božović 21:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Was he born in Serbia? Maybe we should just say he is "Austro-Hungarian"... right? Frankman 03:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

In a certain way he was... being born in the Austrian Empire. But let's clear out the Croatian thing. You see, Croatia did exist at the time, not as an independent nation of course, but as a province within Austria-Hungary. It is rather interesting to mention that this province, so-called "civil Croatia", actually did not include Lika region, where Tesla was born. Lika was part of another province, the Serb-populated Military Frontier within the Austrian Empire... --George D. Božović 12:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that debating if Lika was a part of Croatia, or if Croatia *existed* at the time is worthwhile (It would lead to infinite hotheaded flaming). I suggest the phrase "present day croatia" should be acceptable, since it is clarifying for people not familiar with the geography or the complicated history of the region. I would really love to see the "wikipedia spirit" prevail over nationalism just this once. Cheers Frankman 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

PS: Did you see the movie "The Prestige" ? ... Tesla warns one of the characters about the dangers of obsession. We should be wise to take the advice.

Frankman 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The phrase "present-day Croatia" is more than acceptable, of course, but haven't you seen that it was already mentioned as Tesla's birth place a couple of times in the article? I believe the article looks quite fine this way, with all Tesla's citizenship, ethnicity, and place of birth mentioned properly. I don't think it is that important to state that the village of Smiljan, where Tesla was born, is now part of the Republic of Croatia in the first sentence of the article. --George D. Božović 14:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

GlassFET, apparently you consider that even mentioning that Lika is part of "present day Croatia" is unacceptable. You further went on to place a 3 revert rule warning template in my user page (which I didn't even violate by the way) without contacting me in this talk page first. I won't change it again, but I'd like to hear some arguments against my suggestion. Hope to hear your arguments soon.

You had made 3 reverts. The intent of the warning is that it be placed before you make your fourth, for your own good, to prevent you from getting carried away. As for the rest, it's been thoroughly discussed and the majority of regular editors to this article (i.e. the consensus) agree that the current state of the lead paragraph is optimal. GlassFET 15:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

---

One really important fact in the article is missing. Nikola Tesla was born in todays Croatia, to be more precise, in The Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia-Slavonia), which was an autonomous kingdom within Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. He was born in a place called Smiljan in Lika-Krbava (in Croatian) or Lika-Korbava (in Hungarian, a historic administrative county (comitatus) of the autonomous region Croatia-Slavonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lika-Krbava).

In this article, this is not mentioned at all, so the backgrounds of Nikola Tesla was not presented in an objective way. Moreoever, in the the new, updated information about the new memorial center and the museum built recently in his birthplace in Smiljan, is mising the fact that it is located in Croatia. In fact, in the whole article it seems to be tendency not to use word Croatia, although he was born, raised and finished high school there. The essential, important influence on him was made by his professor of mathematic and phisics in high school near Karlovac, Croatia. After he moved away, he visit Croatia several times and he was pronounced as honorary doctor at the University of Zagreb in Croatia. Nikola Tesla once stated that he is proud of his Serbian origin and of his country of Croatia. This quote should definitely exist in his biography, because it says a lot about him.

Birth place Croatia

Consensus is not important because where you are afraid to write that he is born in today Croatia you are writing POV article. To answer why I will give examples how are written other articles:

• Vuk Stefanović Karadžić was born in the village of Tršić, Ottoman Empire (now Serbia)
• Béla Kun born in Szilágycseh, Transylvania, Austria-Hungary (today Cehu Silvaniei, Romania).
• Karl Renner he was born in Untertannowitz (Dolní Dunajovice) (Moravia)

You will not believe but custom on wiki is to write where is today people place of birth if they have been born in states or territory which today do not exist. To show how are users of this article against Croatia example is that nowhere is writen that Nikola Tesla is born in Croatian krajina but you write Military to evade Croatia question ?? This is very, very sad. Imagine what revert war will start when we from Croatia start to add place of birth Croatia and when user from Serbia deleted that !! Rjecina 5:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

But it is mentioned in article already in the first section. (Please see Nikola_Tesla#Early_years). I believe it's more appropriate to not even include the city, country, and current birthplace in the lead.

• Thomas Edison
• Louis Pasteur
• Albert Einstein

// laughing man 06:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Why Croatian Krajina instead of Military Krajina? Croatian Krajina was only a province within Military Krajina. Vuk Karadžić was born in the Ottoman province of Belgrade pashaluk, but why going that deep? It is quite enough to mention the Ottoman Empire only. Would you state that someone was born in Sussex instead of United Kingdom and refuse to mention UK? I believe you write Croatian Krajina instead of Military Krajina only to emphasis that Tesla's birthplace "belongs" to Croatia. And Croatian Krajina was named so only because it bordered Croatia, not because it was part of Croatia. It was not. --George D. Božović 15:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

For great "neutral" historians 1 other info. In XVI c. because of turkish attacks Croatia has been divided in military and civilian Croatia. Military Croatia has been Croatian and Slavonian krajina (you will say military frontier) and civilian Croatia has been Kingdom of Croatia. Rjecina 08:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

The territory that would later become Military Frontier was excerpted from the territory of the Kingdom of Croatia and it was not under Croatia's jurisdiction. What was left to Croatia was then referred to as civil Croatia or proper Croatia. But it was Croatia, and Military Frontier was not. Military Frontier was not part of Croatia at the time nor it was under Croatian rule. It was later, however, abolished and reunited with the Kingdom of Croatia-Slavonia, but during all of its existence it was a province on its own. Tesla was born in this province, and Croatia at the time of Tesla's birth was located several miles northwards. Tesla could not have been born in Croatia, which was a neighbouring province. Tesla was only born in what is now Croatia, and there is much difference. --George D. Božović 22:58, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

But of course, when talking about countries, Tesla was born in the Austrian Empire (later to become Austria-Hungary), and Croatia didn't exist as a country then, but only as a province within Austria-Hungary. Yet, Tesla was not even born in that province. --George D. Božović 23:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe that was Serbia where Tesla was born? You would probably liked that, but even if the place was few miles south or wherever from the border of Croatia, do you really think that more important are your words that words of him who said: I AM PROUD OF MY COUNTRY CROATIA. I guess this is really difficult to her to you. I am just wandering are you aware of your animosity (to say it soft) towards Croatia - you are counting miles just not to accept what is hurting you. And I am just wandering, what would you say if they put that somebody born at that time was born in the Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia, and that he was born in Zemun. For somebody who supports radicals and seselj, what you probably do, it could be as somebody hits you, although it's true.

I do not support Šešelj and I would like you not to allude to my political opinions, since that has nothing to do with the place of Tesla's birth. Tesla was not born in Serbia, but neither was he born in Croatia. Croatia did not exist as a country then, however it existed as an Austrian province, but Tesla wasn't born in that province and it is a fact which neither I nor Serbian Radical Party have no influence to. Just as much true as someone being born in Zemun at this time was born in Croatia-Slavonia, it is true that Tesla was born in Serb-populated Military Frontier and not Croatia, which was a neighbouring province within Austria-Hungary. I am sorry, but I wasn't the one who drew borders... Perhaps you are the one who is actually hurt by this fact, you supporter of ustaša regime. --George D. Božović 13:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

"Maybe that was Serbia where Tesla was born" - well it sure wasn't Croatia at the time. If Tesla's words overule countries laws and borders then...provide a source. Otherwise, it's clearly stated what the place was at the time of his birth. Overhere 02:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Tesla words

You can say what you want but this are words of BBC:

"The scientist once famously stated that he was equally proud of his Serb origin and Croatian homeland. " [1]

I am sure that somebody very, very wise after long thinking will say that this is POV of BBC, like 1 other user from Serbia (PANONIAN) that UN has been POV in resolutions against Serbia during Yugoslav wars. This has Tesla been saying and this will be writen. We will have 1 very nice revert war is you do not want to accept Tesla words :)) ---Rjecina 9:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

This was already talked about. And please avoid adding the material that belongs on this page to the Tesla talk page Overhere 02:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Rjecina, the only reference to support your claim that these were Tesla's words would be the book "My Inventions" itself. The site you provided as a reference to these (apocryphal?) Tesla's words actually doesn't prove them - it only cites them attributing them to Tesla, same as BBC link. I believe you are aware of the link to the actual text of Tesla's book "My Inventions" that Nikola Smolenski gave. In that book there is no such sentence. You know what Wikipedia is for and how it works. If you don't provide exact proof that these words can be found in the book that you say to contain them, then we shall indeed have a nice revert war, but this time with as many sysops and Wikipedia committee members as possible. Wikipedia is not a playground. --George D. Božović 14:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Hehe, the way you solved the problem is interesting indeed, but I'm afraid we're still missing an appropriate reference. You see, I have nothing against this quotation, but in order to make sure that there are not going to be any more users who will start an edit war over it, we must find a reference strong enough to support such a big claim. For example, if you find a letter or a book in which Tesla wrote this, or a record of a speech in which he said this, you will be having a most excellent reference that you are currently missing. On the other hand, we all somehow 'know' that Tesla said this, but what if it is actually an urban legend, something that he never stated even though he was believed so? All we need is a reference, and by that I don't mean a site that simply repeats this quote. Cheers --George D. Božović 14:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I have no problem with the quote, assuming that the citation is valid, but it does not belong in the lead section, which is already too long. According to the Manual of Style, the lead should not be longer than 4 paragraphs. I'd also suggest that the addition of quotes to the lead is not within the spirit of the style guidelines for the lead. GlassFET 16:03, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

For must people it is not important from where is quotation, but that it is from source which ulmost nobody will put in question. I think it is hard to put in question BBC ? Simple I and must other people will not believe that they have writen lies because of this so not important stuff (for them). I do no see point of writing like source "obscure books" because without looking I can tell you that this version will be writen on versions of his book (My inventions) in Croatia. Books in Serbia will have other version (I think). Book which has been given by Nikola Smolenski is not Bible and sorry if I will trust BBC more of Nikola Smolenski (who is that really ?) ---Rjecina 16:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Nikola Smolenski only provided a link to the original text of Tesla's autobiography book: here. It is the Bible when it comes to such claims as "Tesla said this, Tesla said that". You wrote yourself that this Tesla's statement can be found in his autobiography. According to this link, however, it cannot. Are you lying or what? BBC is not a reference - they are only repeating this claim (or perhaps an urban legend?) without of any source given. If you want to attribute a statement to somebody, you must well support it - with a real written or spoken record from that person. Otherwise, you can't just 'put words in other people's mouth' on your own. You cannot speak in another person's name. Including Tesla's. --George D. Božović 17:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The question, therefore, is: Did Tesla state this or did he not? Can you prove that he actually did? Where did he state this? To whom did he say or wrote this? Is there a verifiable record of it? And is there any source or reference to support it at all? Remember that one of Wikipedia's policies is verifiability, not truth. If you can't find a verifiable solid source, I'm afraid this statement will have to be permanently removed from the article. You simply can't play with other people's statements! How would you feel like if somebody wrote that you stated something that you possibly didn't? --George D. Božović 17:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The quote is apocryphal. You're not going to find it in any primary sources. It was probably invented by a reporter from the The Independent who falsely claimed it was from My Inventions. From there it spread. Your efforts now are bordering on tendentious editing, so you should probably stop. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 17:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Again we need to believe you and not BBC. You want that we believe person which write that Tesla is not born in Croatian Krajina or which is deleting that Tesla is born in place which is today Croatia. "Your" article is having 1 very great mistake. In article is writen that "Tesla is honoured in both Croatia and Serbia". Reading article we know why is honoured in Serbia but we do not know why in Croatia. What is connection between Tesla and Croatia. Article is POV and your reverts are POV. Try to make somebody else afraid with tendentious editing. If something about that happen in worst scenario for me we will both be blocked. ---Rjecina 18:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The connection between Tesla and Croatia is that Tesla's birthplace is today located in Croatia. That was just re-included into the article. --George D. Božović 19:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Lets are be clear I am always right :))

• http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5167054.stm
• http://www.croatia.hr/English/Tesla/Djetinjstvo.aspx (Croatia tourist site with explanation of how this words has become famous in Yugoslavia)
• http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/411
• http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Bilteni/Engleski/b110706_e.html (Serbia/Yugoslavia goverment site with words of US Ambassador)
• http://www.coe.int/t/e/human_rights/minorities/4._intergovernmental_co-operation_(dh-min)/PDF_RussSem_Presentation_Maud_de_Boer_Buquicchio_eng.pdf

(Deputy Secretary General of the Council of Europe)

• http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1169705.ece (book from which are this words is My Inventions version of 1919)
• http://www.jat.com/active/en/home/main_menu/travel_info/jat_review/avgust_2006/nikola_tesla.html (Serbian airline site)

My finding of this sites has been really ease and fast using Google.

There is no way that somebody can defeat all this sites and original sources of Nikola Tesla words including telegraph message and book My Inventions from 1919. I will give you until 40 hours to come in agreement with sources. Then I will return Tesla words in article. If there will be problems wiki administrators will need to enter game and say who is right I or you all. ---Rjecina 20:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You have no primary source, and the sources you cite have much overlap. He definitely didn't say it in his autobiography, which spoils another of your sources. Given the obviously dubious nature of some of the links, it still doesn't appear to anything more than repeated apocrypha. You're really going to need to find a primary source for anyone other than you to consider this verified. And administrators don't take official action on content decisions. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 22:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

If we do not look book edition of 1919 this is primary source:"Vladko Maček, sent Tesla a congratulatory telegram (some sources say that it was on the occasion of his birthday, others that it was prompted by one of Tesla's discoveries), in which he addressed Tesla as “a son of Serbian stock and of the Croatian homeland.” In his return telegram Tesla thanked him warmly and answered that he was equally proud of his Serbian stock and Croatian homeland." Link number 2. ---Rjecina 22:51, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

First, the Independent article doesn't refer to any particular edition (there is only one edition of My Inventions). It simply states that he wrote it in 1919. As for your "primary source," that's actually a secondary source referring to a primary source. You need the primary source; i.e., the text of the telegram from a reliable record keeper (this doesn't include Balkan governments). Simões (^talk/_contribs) 22:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

To stop this story about telegram I think it will be best to show link for telegram site. This is only photto of telegram because original is in Belgrade Museum of Nikola Tesla. I hope that now this problem will in the end be solved. http://www.teslasociety.com/teslavillage.htm I am really interested if there will be any more question about that. In my personal thinking and thinking of Tesla historians he has been strong supporter of Yugoslavia so end of telegram is in his style. 1 other stuff about nobody speak in this article when Tesla has come to USA he has identified himself as being born in Croatia. It is real important to say he has not spoken in Immigration office about Military Frontier, Austria or Serbia but about Croatia. Will this problem be now solved ? ---Rjecina 01:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Big deal, here is the first link that popped up when i searched "Vlatko Macek Tesla". PS. this webpage is obviously not pro-Serbian, and I am pretty sure there'd be more. Overhere 13:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Add in the quote where you think it's most fitting. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 18:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

For "George"

Đorđe ti si glup ko kurac,ti uopce ne bi smio uređivati nista o tesli zato što si srbin i svaki dokaz koji govori da je tesla hrvat ti ces reci da nije zato jer si srbin i neznam ko ti daje pravo da sereš jer nemas pojma nista o hrvatskoj.Hrvatska je u to vrijeme postojala samo sto ti to negiras zato da ne bi ispalo ni slucajno da je tesla imalo hrvat jel to bi unistilo valjda jedinog veceg znanstvenika kojeg "imate".Uostalom ti tolko volis svoju domovinu i ponosan si na nju i njezinu povijest da si napisao da se zoves george.Majmun si i sram te moze biti.Vazno da seres o hrvatskoj,a ne postujes ni srbiju.GLUPANE,NEMOJ SRAT VISE.

Doista! :o Srami se takvih riječi. Bijesan zbog toga što tvoje izmjene na članku nisu ispravne tu na taj način sramotiš sebe jedino dokazujući da nemaš nikakvih argumenata za svoje tvrdnje i da si jako priprost čovjek, moram priznati. Osobe koje nemaju nimalo odgoja ne bi uopće smjele urećivati Vikipediju... No, za razliku od tebe, pokušat ću biti civiliziran. Prije svega, Tesla nije Hrvat i gdje su ti dokazi koji govore da jeste a koje ja niječem? Drugo, Hrvatska u to vrijeme nije postojala kao samostalna država, no ipak je postojala kao, kako to da kažem, jedna povijesna pokrajina u Austrijskom carstvu. Stvar je jednostavno u tome što Tesla nije bio rođen u toj pokrajini, nego u jednoj drugoj pokrajini koja se zvala Vojna krajina. To nema nikakve veze ni sa mnom ni s tobom; to je prosto tako, a ako si suviše glup i neodgojen da to shvatiš ja ti ništa ne mogu pomoći... A to koliko ja volim svoju domovinu i koliko sam ili koliko nisam ponosan na nju, sasvim je nevažno u ovoj diskusiji i molio bih te da se suzdržiš od prostačkih napada i patetičnih vrijeđanja. Ako doista želiš iznijeti tvrdnje da je Tesla bio Hrvat i da je Hrvatska u to vrijeme postojala, te da je Tesla bio rođen u njoj, izvoli slobodno, što mi Srbi umijemo kazati: "široko ti polje"; iznesi dokaze i valjane izvore pa slobodno možeš to, tako ponosito na svoju domovinu i njezinu tisućljetnu povijest, raširiti po čitavom članku dokle ti se dupe ne zasiti. Ja ti neću stajati na putu, a posebno te neću vrijeđati i psovati samo zato što mi se ne sviđaju dokazi koji govore drugačije... --George D. Božović 10:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Oprosti mi molim te,nisam ja kriv što si ti tako pametan.Po tvojim razmišljanjima Tesla je bio Austrijanac.Sigurno su ljudi rođeni u vojnoj krajini nazivani Austrijancima ili vojno krajinašima.Pošto je moj deda bio Srbin,i što imam nešto Srbske krvi da li to mene čini Srbinom.Naravno da me ne čini,imam Hrvatsko državljanstvo,a ne Srbsko.Rođen sam u Hrvatskoj,a ne u Srbiji.Pošto ti navodiš da je Tesla bio rođen u nečem što je danas Hrvatska,onda su svi koje znam Jugoslaveni,a ne Hrvati,Srbi,Slovenci,......i ostalih nacionalnosti.Onda u svim dokumentima treba pisati da su ljudi rođeni u Jugoslaviji,Jugoslaveni i sad bi trebali imati Jugoslavensko državljanstvo. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466276,gledaj spomen ploču,slika 15 po redu.

Hm, začudićeš se, ali upravo su ljudi iz Vojne Krajine nazivani Krajišnicima... Čudnovato, nije li? --George D. Božović 11:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Nisam sasvim siguran razumiješ li razliku između pripadanja jednom etnosu i posjedovanja nekog državljanstva. Tesla je imao američko državljanstvo, ali po nacionalnosti (Englezi upravo ne bi rekli nationality, jer to je kod njih "iz koje si države, državljanstvo dakle", nego ethnicity, što je "pripadanje narodu", ali to se kod nas kaže narodnost ili nacionalnost), Tesla je bio Srbin. Roditelji su mu bili Srbi i on se osjećao Srbinom. (To je ono što se računa; baš kao što se i ti osjećaš Hrvatom, on je bio Srbin.) A vidiš, ne moraš da budeš rođen u Srbiji da bi bio Srbin... To bi vjerojatno značilo i da Hrvata ima samo u Hrvatskoj, i to pod uvjetom da su tu i rođeni, pa onda možeš slobodno izbrisati Burgenland (Gradišće) s demografskih karti, na primjer... --George D. Božović 11:21, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Prije nego što napustim razgovore o Tesli jedan komentar o Vašoj raspravi. Prvo prilično je nekulturno ulaziti anonimno u raspravu nadam se da ćemo se oko toga složiti. Drugo bi bilo da je Tesla rođen u Hrvatskoj Krajini. Čuo sam genijalnih komentara da bi napisat tako nešto bilo kao da se napiše da je čovjek rođen u Wesexu, a ne u Engleskoj što je glupost. Koristeći ovu alegoriju moram reći da bi to bilo kao napisati da je čovjek rođen u Engleskoj namjesto napisati da je rođen u UK. Zašto ? Pošto je Vojna Krajina imala samo 2 dijela (Hrvatsku i Slavonsku). Inače za kraj moram se složiti s potpisanim kolegom da nacionalnost i državljanstvo nemaju nikakve međusobne veze. Bez obzira na mjesto gdje ja živim mene prije svega zanima istina koja je samo jedna za sve nas, a sve ostalo je propaganda ili laž--Rjecina 14:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Zapravo, ovaj spisak nabraja devet dijelova... Svejedno. Ipak ne vidim zašto inzistirati na Hrvatskoj Krajini umjesto Vojnoj Krajini? --George D. Božović 16:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I have not known that in XIX century has been more of 2 parts :)) Why Croatian krajina and not Military Frontier ? Answer is simple: Article will have peace without nationalistic revert wars. Second reason with which maybe you will not agree that in the end this (something like this) has been wish of Tesla if we look what he is saying in 1884 (immigration office in USA) and in 1936 (telegram false or not it has been from his lifetime so he has opportunity to say that it is false) --Rjecina 17:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe it would be OK with me, but there is some kind of a consensus other users mentioned to me which proscribed that the article should mention Military Frontier and not the Croatian Frontier or Croatia etc. So, if Croatian Frontier is fine with the consensus, then you can freely replace Military Frontier with Croatian Frontier... Also, note this: If you find out that Croatian Krajina doesn't fit the consensus, do not start another edit war please, but rather try to change the consensus, it's quite easier. :) Cheers, --George D. Božović 18:26, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Tesla is born in Croatian Krajina

Lets look for consensus so that article start with "Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, he was an ethnic Serb". Reasons for starting article in this way are:

• So there will not be in future revert wars. You can see that every month 1 or more users are coming and changing Military Frontier. In the end who know outside Balkan where is Military Frontier
• I was born in Croatia (Tesla words in USA immigration office. year is 1884)
• I was born in Croatia ( Nikola Tesla, New York Times, Oct. 19, 1934)
• Tesla telegram 1936.

In the end revert wars are not important but only important are Tesla words.

I will wait for 7 days that somebody give arguments which will defeat this 4 for writing Croatian Krajina. If nobody can defeat them I will change article begining in Croatian Krajina. --Rjecina 21:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Croatia didn't exist then. There you go. He could have said "I was born in the land of fairies," but that doesn't change the fact that he was born in Military Frontier, Austria-Hungary. And reverting edits by Croatian nationalists once a month isn't much of a burden. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 22:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Rjecina: Threatening with a revert war is a pathetic argument. Your other argument is childish - Tesla's words don't overrule history - is this so hard to understand? If you want a revert war and to continue this then I got no problem of engaging in a revert war over the telegram statement and giving you plenty of arguments "to defeat" on whether the telegram is fake or not. Overhere 01:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

We are speaking about arguments not threats. I know very good that he is born Croatian Krajina and not in Croatia. Point is to write Croatian Krajina and not Military Frontier. Second possibilty is to write after Military Frontier (today Croatia). I have not hear any reasons against that --Rjecina 1:55, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

You're obviously trying any way you can to get the word "Croatia" in there. Asking for mention of either "Croatian Krajina" or that his birthplace is in modern-day Croatia are two different things entirely. That either one would satisfy you exposes you as a nationalistic, tendentious editor (as if this had not been done already). However reasonable or unreasonable your requests are individually, you're only inspiring people to ignore you as just another nationalist. This is why we send your ilk and your Serbian nationalist counterparts to this page. Simões (^talk/_contribs) 19:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Uh!

"Croatian Frontier" and "Banat Frontier" are all just stupid unofficial names for a part of the Military Frontier that, as such, never really existed.

If you want to go more in precise of the Military Frontier, say Karlovac Generalate and then Smiljan, Gospic.

Perhaps you should write that the birthplace of people in south Italy is "Megale Hellas" or people born in Kosovo, Macedonia and Sanjak with "Old Serbia" their birthplace. Of course not.

I live in Croatia and I demand that it be put that he was born in present-day Croatia. But born in Hrvatska Krajina - thats not even nationalistic, thats just false. --195.29.129.126 12:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe the fact that Tesla's birthplace is today located in Croatia has been introduced to the article a long time ago. :) --George D. Božović 13:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I am Croatia nationalistic tendentious editor dear Simoes ? Let see then what are you and other users which are working on this page. First we have fight about Tesla words "I'm equally proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland". After yours constant deleting because there is no evidence (?) that Tesla has say this words, you have accepted only after evidence which is not possible to destroy have been find. When this has been done the your neutral users have come to idea that this words are not good enough for begining of article ?? After that you have moral bravery to say that you and others users which are working on this article are neutral ? I stay with my comment that Tesla has been always speaking that he is from Croatia. Do you want to say how you or any of us which live today known better of Tesla where he is born. Only person blind with nationalistic fundamentalism can say that he known better of Tesla what is his homeland ! --Rjecina 14:38, 20 July 2007 (UTC)