Edit filter log

'{{Aan}} == One of the seven dwarfs == Heh. If you hadn't added "garner" in [[Special:Diff/886507921|your initial edit]] I would have added it myself. It is my unfavorite. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 19:21, 6 March 2019 (UTC) :I suspect it may still be needed in [[Garner, North Carolina|some dopey places]]? We learn that "In 1912, the telephone came to Garner." I wonder did it stay? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:27, 6 March 2019 (UTC) ::Feel free to suggest . [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:40, 6 March 2019 (UTC) :::I have to admit that I'm [[Chalkboard scraping|not good]] with garner (small g), either. Here's another we've got an entire [[Legend|article]] for. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:52, 6 March 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==Do you?== I am running into a problem again at DYK and trying to get in another entry for April 1st. I know the holiday is also dear to you. See [[Susan Montgomery Williams]]. Best Regards, [[User:Barbara (WVS)|<span style="border:1px solid black;color:black; padding:1px;background:#CEE6F2"><small>'' Barbara ''</small></span>]][[User talk:Barbara (WVS)|<small>✐</small>]][[Special:Emailuser/Barbara (WVS)|<small>✉</small>]] 23:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == RfC at Stanley Kubrick == This is a courtesy notice that there is an ongoing RfC about adding an infobox to [[Stanley Kubrick]] at [[Talk:Stanley Kubrick]]. Since you are a previous participant in such discussions, you may be interested in participating. --[[User:Laser_brain|<span style="color: purple;">'''Laser brain'''</span>]] [[User_talk:Laser_brain|<span style="color: purple;">(talk)</span>]] 16:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC) :{{U|Laser_brain}}, while I appreciate the invitation this isn't something I feel strongly about, so I think I'll sit this one out. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:58, 19 August 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == People ask strange things == I thought that was kind of self-explanatory already! Cheers [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 19:36, 20 August 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Bleary == I should have remembered that the standing order for MOS edits is "if in doubt, revert first, ask questions later". So to the extent that I doubted your good faith, I withdraw unconditionally. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|John Maynard Friedman]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 15:13, 19 August 2019 (UTC) :It was not {{tq|revert first, ask questions later}} so much as the fact that the inserted text literally and exactly began as shown here: ::{{tq|Do not change the established era style in an article unless there are reasons specific to its content. Seek consensus on the talk pageApply {{em|beforesection link|Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Retaining existing styles}} making the change.}} :[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:25, 19 August 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Dispute resolution == [[Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Manzanar]] {{Clear}} == baby buggy video == Hi, quick note. Wasn't trying to edit war with you about that video. I think the video is helpful and we aren't here to only show "safe practices" on Wikipedia. But the adding after you deleted was simply I thought I didn't click save right because when I reloaded the page in another tab shortly after adding the video it was gone. I thought I did something wrong, didn't notice until I saw the history that you deleted it so quickly. You seem to feel strong ownership of that page? Didn't try to step on you or anything, sorry about that. Cheers, [[User:Nesnad|Nesnad]] ([[User talk:Nesnad|talk]]) 05:48, 5 September 2019 (UTC) :I assure you I feel no ownership of the baby buggy page. But when other editors tell you that your self-made video doesn’t improve an article, you should listen. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:33, 5 September 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == That skeleton == [[:File:00324 Die Skelette in Sanok in einem Marktplatz.JPG|That skeleton image]] isn't some unknown long-forgotten burial, but a photo of the exhumation of the cemetery of the Catholic graveyard of the [[:pl:Kościół św. Michała Archanioła w Sanoku|Church of St Michael the Archangel]] in Sanok. Sanok is somewhat politically sensitive—it lies right at the meeting point of traditionally German/Austrian, Polish, Ukrainian, Russian/Belarussian and Jewish areas—and the EEML gang are pretty much guaranteed to take offense (or at least, to feign offense) once they make the link. Given that Commons is in no danger or running out of photographs of skeletons, you might want to use one a little less sensitive unless you have a blinding urge to be scraping assorted East European nationalist editwarriors off your talkpage for the next six months.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 16:42, 12 January 2019 (UTC) :Well, all the good skeleton pix{{snd}}to be effective it's got to give the impression that the subject dropped dead in harness{{snd}}seem to be from someone or other's sacred burying ground, so since I've been using this one for years (and so have other people{{snd}}I'm an influencer, apparently) I think I'll just stay the course and take my chances. But I appreciate the heads-up. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:40, 12 January 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==DYK for Derrick Morris== {{ivmbox |image = Updated DYK query.svg |imagesize=40px |text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#23 May 2019|23 May 2019]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Derrick Morris]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that when '''[[Derrick Morris]]''' received a new heart in 1980 his chances of survival were slim, but he lived another 25 years?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Derrick Morris]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2019-05-13&end=2019-06-02&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Derrick_Morris Derrick Morris])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]]. }}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 00:02, 23 May 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Tiddlywinks, not [[Tidle]]s == "Enclosed Instructions for Use: Each player receives a large brand and a corresponding number of small brands. At the beginning of the game place the opened cup in the middle of the table, which is best covered with a thick blanket. Each participant places the small marks on the tablecloth at the same distance from the cup. In turn, each participant is then snapped once, i. with the big mark is pressed on the edge of the small mark so much that the latter falls through a jump in the cup. Anyone who has brought one of his brands in the cup, may snap again. Once a mark falls off the table, it must be returned to its starting point. Who brings all the brands in the cup first, has won." (Google translation from German) Apparently (see section header), we expect such typos. Thanks, as always, for giving me a tittery, tiddly, tickly giggle.--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 17:36, 5 June 2019 (UTC) :Please do not archive this page because of its size (above section). To save my edit above, it took me 1h30m52s, during which time I read ''War and Peace'' twice. Thanks!--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 17:39, 5 June 2019 (UTC) :Yeah fine, whateva, but who wins the [[Tiddles|saucer of Vollmilch]]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:57, 5 June 2019 (UTC) <small>Please do not archive this page because of its size (above section). To save my edit above, it took me [[Utah Beach|over 6 hours]], during which time a [[Donald Trump|wandering senile beachcomber]] was able to agree two phenomenal trade deals, one [[National Health Service|with the Drug Enforcement Administration]] and one [[Boris Johnson|without]].</small> ::Size does matter. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:58, 6 June 2019 (UTC) :::Yes, but EEng does have [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlvskRTzVnE the most beautiful hands]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:13, 6 June 2019 (UTC) ::::The only thing that holds true about [[Hand (measurement)|hands]] applies to measuring a horse. And speaking of horses...a gal entered a bar in Texas, and noticed a cowboy with his feet propped up on a table. She marveled over the size of his boots and was inspired to approach him. She boldly asked him if what they say about Trump's small hands is true, then could the opposite be true about men with big feet? The cowboy grinned and said "Shore is, ma'am," and invited her to his bunkhouse. She was curious enough to accept his invitation. The next morning as she was leaving the bunkhouse, she handed him $300. He blushingly accepted the money and with a big grin thanked her saying, "Ain't nobody ever paid fer mah services before." She retorted, "Oh, don't be flattered. Use that money to buy yourself some boots that fit." [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 15:44, 6 June 2019 (UTC) :::::With all the money Trump claims to have, it would seem he's been on the receiving end of a ''lot'' of those payments over the years. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:32, 7 June 2019 (UTC) ::::::Heza blue collar billionaire. Great name for my next gelding. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 12:55, 7 June 2019 (UTC) ::::::::Blue collar? Maybe. Billionaire? No reliable sourcing! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:14, 7 June 2019 (UTC) ::::::I guess the real question here is..... "does the Donald wear [[Velvet Gloves and Spit|big gloves]]?" [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:22, 7 June 2019 (UTC) :::::::I suppose those would be little mushroom gloves. Which, wouldn't you know it, are actually a thing: [https://www.etsy.com/market/mushroom_gloves]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:12, 7 June 2019 (UTC) ::::::::Hmmm, how [https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/stormy-daniels-trump-penis-mushroom-kimmel-732426/ tasteful]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:19, 7 June 2019 (UTC) :::::::::I think that's the first time I've seen "Trump" and "tasteful" in the same thought. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:23, 7 June 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::Speaking of [http://www.jokes4us.com/celebrityjokes/billclintonjokes/billclintononelinersjokes.html "tasteful"...] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 15:53, 8 June 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::And the first time I've seen "Republicans making jokes about a Democrat" and "tasteful".... --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:47, 8 June 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::"Yabba-Dabba-[https://twitter.com/globeopinion/status/722322141128101888 Democrat"!!] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:58, 8 June 2019 (UTC) <small> ... thank you, ''[[Private Eye]]''</small> {{Clear}} == ''Zu gross'' thread 99-- == :<small> With sincerest apologies to Rammstein</small> So cut this back it's not to late<br /> Life's too short and I can't wait (for the page to load)<br /> Please cut this back, oh don't see<br /> It can't be read; i t &nbsp; j u s t &nbsp; w o n 't &nbsp; l o a d.&nbsp; [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) {{Clear}} == Infamy, infamy... == [[File:20160208054949!Wildschein,_Nähe_Pulverstampftor_(cropped).jpg|thumb|upright=.7|in the open and w/o disguise.&nbsp; [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) ]] Hello. You have been mentioned in dispatches at [https://wikirev.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2268&start=20#p6290 Auggie's gaff.] [[User:There&#39;ll always be an EEngland!|There&#39;ll always be an EEngland!]] ([[User talk:There&#39;ll always be an EEngland!|talk]]) :"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:57, 30 July 2019 (UTC) ::I followed that link, and at first my antimalware software didn't want me to go. I bravely persevered, and I noticed that they call the page in question Phineas Cage (''sic''). Somehow, that seems fitting for a site like that. I wonder if he's related to Nicholas. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:03, 30 July 2019 (UTC) :::Glad someone was braver than I.&nbsp; [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) 19:14, 30 July 2019 (UTC) ::::Braver? Maybe just stupider. (Why is my computer screen telling me to give it my credit card numbers?) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:42, 30 July 2019 (UTC) :::::[https://wikirev.org/forum/search.php?keywords=dlohcierekim&sid=1f285854f0d054eb45c4cb5d7823b751 I guess I'm not so interesting as others. Boring, that's li'l old me.]&nbsp; [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) 19:49, 30 July 2019 (UTC) ::::::That is weird. I think you're getting the security messages because you're using https in the address. As far as I know, there is no certificate, so you should just use http. [[User:Sole Flounder|Sole Flounder]] ([[User talk:Sole Flounder|talk]]) 22:12, 30 July 2019 (UTC) :::::::And talking of [[There'll Always Be an England|"Infamy, infamy"]]... wow, things are already hottin' up in the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1qRFil9xj0&feature=youtu.be&t=14&fbclid=IwAR2e7ECBKVqufvWO8Zx4ZC2lSoFLk0agBN28tOm5m7UJlQJR7DcQcrZ460Q search for a new Hilary]. That's the kind of hype that, in the UK, we reserve for [[The X Factor (British TV series)|something really tacky]]. '''Almost''' as exciting as the recent UK [[2019 Conservative Party (UK) leadership election|Final of ''Love Island'']]. My money's on that [[John Hickenlooper|Chickenlooper]]. [[Alistair Cooke| Alistair-Cooked-to-a-frazzle-already-123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 18:49, 2 August 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Circular reasoning == It might be circular, but it's very neat and self contained. [[User:Koncorde|Koncorde]] ([[User talk:Koncorde|talk]]) 12:39, 8 August 2019 (UTC) :Have you visited [[User:EEng#s|The Museums]] lately? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:01, 8 August 2019 (UTC) ::[[Will the Circle Be Unbroken?]]-- [[User:Dlohcierekim|<b style="color:black">Dloh<span style="color:red">cier</span><span style="color:gold">ekim</span></b>]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) 13:03, 8 August 2019 (UTC) :::I find museums, like circles, leave me feeling [[tired and emotional]]. [[User:Koncorde|Koncorde]] ([[User talk:Koncorde|talk]]) 15:57, 8 August 2019 (UTC) *For those playing along at home, the reference is to [[Talk:Moors_murders#rfc_on_consensus_version_to_return_to]]. Editors of all stylistic stripes are invited to partake in the fun. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:13, 8 August 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Please comment on [[Wikipedia talk:Categorization#rfc_B0DA32F|Wikipedia talk:Categorization]] == The [[WP:Feedback request service|feedback request service]] is asking for participation in [[Wikipedia talk:Categorization#rfc_B0DA32F|this request for comment on '''Wikipedia talk:Categorization''']]. <!-- Template:FRS message --> <!-- FRS id 108514 --> [[User:Legobot|Legobot]] ([[User talk:Legobot|talk]]) 04:29, 16 August 2019 (UTC) :I might politely suggest that the honourable Mr Eng refrain from commenting on a dispute about the criminality of concise language. [[User:Triptothecottage|Triptothecottage]] ([[User talk:Triptothecottage|talk]]) 05:09, 16 August 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Edit summaries == Hi. As you probably know but just forgot, it's best to use Edit summaries just to summarize edits. Thanks. [[User:BeenAroundAWhile|BeenAroundAWhile]] ([[User talk:BeenAroundAWhile|talk]]) 04:09, 24 August 2019 (UTC) :''For those playing along at home, this seems to regard this edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=912232593].'' :Why? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:32, 24 August 2019 (UTC) ::I don't know, I like to use edit summaries to store old passwords for when I no longer need them any more. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 05:58, 24 August 2019 (UTC) :::Oh, no! How pallid a universe if we so limited out edit summaries.-- <b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span>]][[User talk:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:red">fried</span>]][[Special:UserRights/Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:gold">okra</span>]] </b> 06:02, 24 August 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==Wikiprojects on [[Harvard University]]== "Sorry, but if this is included then there's no conceivable Wikiproject that wouldn't be included" whats wrong with including many wiki projects ? :Hi {{U|RJJ4y7}}. If the [[Harvard University]] article carries a [[WP:Wikiproject neuroscience]] banner, then it would have to have banners for all the following: African and African American Studies, Anthropology, Applied Mathematics, Applied Physics, Art, Film, and Visual Studies, Astronomy, Bioengineering, Celtic Languages and Literatures, Chemistry and Chemical Biology, Computer Science, The Classics, Comparative Literature, Earth and Planetary Sciences, East Asian Languages and Civilizations, Economics, Electrical Engineering, English, Environmental Science & Engineering, Germanic Languages and Literatures, Government, History, History of Art and Architecture, History of Science, Human Evolutionary Biology, Linguistics, Materials Science & Mechanical Engineering, Mathematics, Molecular and Cellular Biology, Music, Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations, Organismic and Evolutionary Biology, Philosophy, Physics, Psychology, Romance Languages and Literatures, Slavic Languages and Literatures, Sociology, South Asian Studies, Statistics, Stem Cell and Regenerative Biology. Those are just the departments of the [[Harvard Faculty of Arts and Sciences]]. Then you'd also need banners for every branch of medicine, law, business, government, divinity, engineering, education, architecture, and any number of things. Then the banners become meaningless. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:44, 29 June 2020 (UTC) im aware of this but my question is what is wrong with that? i mean the perpose of banners is to notify those groups of interest to work on the project, dont we want as many peolpe to work on articles as possible? [[User:RJJ4y7|RJJ4y7]] ([[User talk:RJJ4y7|talk]]) 16:29, 29 June 2020 (UTC) :The key is "groups <u>of interest</u>". The goal of banners, as EEng notes, is to get people who are especially interested in a fairly specific topic that they have chosen. For example, Harvard is a school that a significant part of a location, so it's relevant to schools and that location. You seem to have a particular interest in adding {{tl|Neuroscience}}, and [[WP:Neuroscience]] identifies itself as "A collaborative team of editors aiming to create high-quality neuroscience articles". I don't think Harvard is a "neuroscience article" even if some people there study that topic. Now that you know several editors dispute this general approach, consider asking [[WT:Neuroscience]] what those already involved there feel would be useful and relevant. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 16:54, 29 June 2020 (UTC) acknowledged [[User:RJJ4y7|RJJ4y7]] ([[User talk:RJJ4y7|talk]]) 22:26, 29 June 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Talk:Golden State Killer sections sent into oblivion in 2019 == It appears that {{diff|Talk:Golden State Killer|diff=885457942|oldid=885095741|label=this series of edits on 2019-02-28}} should have cut-and-pasted a bunch of sections from [[Talk:Golden State Killer]] into [[Talk:Golden State Killer/Archive 1]], but instead sent them to [[User talk:Example/Archive 1]], which was then {{diff|title=User talk:Dartslilly/Archive 1|diff=890825087|oldid=885457856|label=blanked on 2019-04-03}} on [[User:Guy Macon]] as "It should not contain any actual archived content" without any attempt to return the content to the correct page. Then, just to confuse things, that page formerly named [[User talk:Example/Archive 1]] was moved to [[User talk:Dartslilly/Archive 1]] by [[User:Dartslilly]] on 2020-01-05. So the archived sections are now sitting in the page history for [[User talk:Dartslilly/Archive 1]]. Do you want to restore them to [[Talk:Golden State Killer/Archive 1]] or should I? (I caught this because the page move from [[Original Night Stalker]] referred to a discussion that wasn't in the archives.) --[[User:Closeapple|Closeapple]] ([[User talk:Closeapple|talk]]) 19:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC) :From [[User_talk:Technical_13/Scripts/OneClickArchiver]] it appears this happens now and then. I'm too old and cranky to touch something like this. Perhaps someone in my glittering array of talk page stalkers will be able to handle it. If nothing happens here after a while, raise it at [[WP:VPT]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:08, 29 June 2020 (UTC) :{{U|Closeapple}}: Just wanted to be sure you saw the above. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:05, 1 July 2020 (UTC) ::Yes, I did. Thanks! I've just been too preoccupied to think about what order those should go back into the right archives in; it shouldn't be too hard once I look at it though. Will probably need to split it because there were relevant discussions both before and after a page move. --[[User:Closeapple|Closeapple]] ([[User talk:Closeapple|talk]]) 18:04, 2 July 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == File:WugTest NowThereIsAnotherOne FairUseOnly.jpg listed for discussion == [[File:Information.svg|30px|left]] A file that you uploaded or altered, [[:File:WugTest NowThereIsAnotherOne FairUseOnly.jpg]], has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion]]. Please see the [[Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2020 September 25#File:WugTest NowThereIsAnotherOne FairUseOnly.jpg|'''discussion''']] to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> <span style="white-space: nowrap;">— [[User:Wugapodes|Wug·]][[User talk:Wugapodes|a·po·des]]​</span> 01:33, 25 September 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==Orphaned non-free image File:WugTest NowThereIsAnotherOne FairUseOnly.jpg== [[File:Ambox warning blue.svg|35px|text-top|left|⚠|link=]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:File:WugTest NowThereIsAnotherOne FairUseOnly.jpg]]'''. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]). Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#F5|section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --[[User:B-bot|B-bot]] ([[User talk:B-bot|talk]]) 02:42, 26 September 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Questions regarding appropriate notification == [I posted the following at [[Wikipedia_talk:Canvassing]] on September 20 and to an administrator the following day, but as yet have received no reply. I've been supposing that in the continued absence of a response I'll repost it at the Teahouse (and not at the Village Pump because I don't want to put it both places), but want to stay as high on tippy-toes as I can while trying to get through this minefield. Can you offer any advice (other than to shut up and do nothing) and perhaps clarify the unclear policy? Thanks.] (1) ''An editor who may wish to draw a wider range of informed, but uninvolved, editors to a discussion can place a message at any of the following:'' Does this mean "at any one (but not more than one) of the following", or "at any one or more of the following"? Could the sentence be revised to make this more clear? (2) ''The audience must not be selected on the basis of their opinions—for example, if notices are sent to editors who previously supported deleting an article, then identical notices should be sent to those who supported keeping it. Do not send notices to too many users, [...]'' I sense a conflict here and again request clarification. Before reading this, I compiled a list of previous editors of the page concerned, there being a few more than a hundred. I didn't include some of the editors, not because of the content of their edits but because their edit was very minor, or came from an IP address with no contributions link, or had "bot" in the name of the editor. The list should thus serve from the viewpoint of neutrality. I could go back and include even the minor one-timers and the bots, though this seems unadvisable since the given example is of editors who have made ''substantial'' edits to the topic or article. There seems to be a possible conflict between selection and quantity, however. If I don't notify all the past editors of the page to avoid writing to too many (however many that is – this too could perhaps be made more clear), then I have to make a selection, and selecting seems problematic. If I select using some random method (none of which I have in mind), what's to say it's really random? And if I select an equal number of editors expressing a certain disposition and those expressing another, then what's to say I didn't include the ones I like and exclude the ones I didn't, even if I included the same number from both categories? Would it be best to simply notify all the prior editors, including the minor one-timers and the bots, or should I use my present list in which these aren't included (which would be in accordance with the example). Thanks for any information and/or advice, and I hope the uncertainty in the two points mentioned can eventually be clarified in the [[WP:APPNOTE]] text. If one or more persons have asked about these things before, that would seem even more appropriate. –[[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 14:23, 24 September 2020 (UTC) *You're worrying too much. (1) Use your judgment but be restrained. (2) Notify the most recent 5 to 15 substantial editors found on the contributions list. Five if it's no big deal, 15 if it's controversial. Not a hundred. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:02, 24 September 2020 (UTC) **I'm worrying less now, thanks. (1) The text could easily be "any one" if that was intended. "Any" does not limit, but I won't go hog-wild and will try to avoid the appearance of doing so. (2) Okay, 5 and 15. I assume that's your opinion and that others might differ, but I'll respect yours. I was going to make it 14 rather than 15 for the sake of equality, but the policy says that notices should be sent to "those" (?) rather than strictly to "an equal number of those". It would then seem that 8 good guys and 7 bad guys would be acceptable, though one might take exception to 9 and 6. Thanks again. –[[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 16:06, 24 September 2020 (UTC) **No, I'll make it 14. Better halfway safe than indefinitely banned. –[[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 16:23, 24 September 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==talking== [[File:Donald Trump Speech in Poland 2017.jpg|thumb|"[[Goodbyeee|This is a crisis. A large crisis. In fact, if you got a moment, it's a twelve-storey crisis with a magnificent entrance hall, carpeting throughout, 24-hour portage, and an enormous sign on the roof, saying 'This Is a Large Crisis'. A large crisis requires a large plan. Get me two pencils and a pair of underpants.]]"]] You need to control your temper and language. There is nothing wrong with my edits. [[User:Hmains|Hmains]] ([[User talk:Hmains|talk]]) 04:17, 9 January 2019 (UTC) :Interested stalkers may wish to visit [[User_talk:Hmains#For_the_last_time]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:28, 9 January 2019 (UTC) ::{{tps}} Hah! You should have heard the words I had for Trump after reading [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46739180 this]. THAT's a NPA violation! [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 10:57, 9 January 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==DYK for Dermophis donaldtrumpi== {{tmbox |type = notice |image = [[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]] |text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#17 January 2019|17 January 2019]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Dermophis donaldtrumpi]]''''', which you recently nominated. The fact was ''... that the man who named a nearly blind amphibian '''''[[Dermophis donaldtrumpi]]''''' did so to raise awareness of Donald Trump's policies on [[climate change]]?'' {{#if: |The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[]].|{{#ifexist:Template:Did you know nominations/Dermophis donaldtrumpi|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Dermophis donaldtrumpi]].|{{#ifexist:Template talk:Did you know/Dermophis donaldtrumpi|The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template talk:Did you know/Dermophis donaldtrumpi]].}} }} }} You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2019-01-07&end=2019-01-27&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Dermophis_donaldtrumpi daily totals])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]]. }}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYKNom --> [[User:Panyd|Panyd]]^{[[User talk:Panyd|The muffin is not subtle]]} 00:03, 17 January 2019 (UTC) :I had looked at the DYK discussion early on, but didn't stick around. Seeing it now, good grief, it looks like death-by-overthinking, or maybe by something else. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:30, 17 January 2019 (UTC) ::Bunch of fraidy-cats. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:43, 17 January 2019 (UTC) :::We have all the best fraidy-cats. We have so many fraidy-cats that soon you'll be getting sick of so many fraidy-cats. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:49, 17 January 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Awe... == Your "I rest my case" video at the top of your user page links to an unavailable video. Bummerrrrr. Nice user page, btw. [[User:Leitmotiv|Leitmotiv]] ([[User talk:Leitmotiv|talk]]) 04:34, 15 January 2019 (UTC) :The Curator appreciates your bringing this matter to our attention. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wh2b1eZFUM Information Adjustments] has taken appropriate steps. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:10, 15 January 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==Thanks== Thanks for reverting my edit based on misunderstanding about the article size. (I'm sure that I had concluded this by being led there from somewhere else, but that was yesterday...) While we're both here, would you please assist this relative ignoramus by informing her how to calculate/assess/find automatically the actual size of the finished article? [[User:Laterthanyouthink|Laterthanyouthink]] ([[User talk:Laterthanyouthink|talk]]) 06:52, 19 January 2019 (UTC) :The usual tool for this, I think, is the one at [[User:Dr pda/prosesize]]. It provides a link in the sidebar that you can click to calculate any page's size. You have to save first; it won't work while you're editing. But because [[Wikipedia:Writing better articles]] is somewhat official (part of a guideline), it would probably be best not to add unofficial user page software links to it. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 06:56, 19 January 2019 (UTC) :The Great and Powerful Oz prefers the "Page statistics" link found on any page history page; then once you're on the page stats page, search the string ''prose''. Since it's linked from page histories I think it counts as official, and it doesn't require installing anything (plus it gives a lot of other useful stuff). [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:04, 19 January 2019 (UTC) ::Ah - thanks to both of you. Any chance of including this (as a footnote to the 50KB size guide perhaps) in the style manual? As a relative newbie to anything more than occasional small edits, I seem to find myself wading through pages of Wiki help trying to find what I need sometimes. (I must admit that I'm usually more focussed on content than the tools and should probably dedicate more time to the latter sometime!) [[User:Laterthanyouthink|Laterthanyouthink]] ([[User talk:Laterthanyouthink|talk]]) 07:24, 19 January 2019 (UTC) :::Go ahead and add it! But stop fo-cussing; it's impolite. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 07:37, 19 January 2019 (UTC) ::::Sorry, but I was just brought up that way (-cussing)! Will do. [[User:Laterthanyouthink|Laterthanyouthink]] ([[User talk:Laterthanyouthink|talk]]) 11:53, 19 January 2019 (UTC) :::::Okay, I have made a few changes to several pages where article size and splitting are mentioned, and did find that Prosesize tool referred to as well as another user one - so I threw caution to the winds and copied them onto another page as well... ::::: Now, on a related but separate matter, talking of size - back to where my enquiries into size and splitting articles started. Long story short (having originally being led to some work on a "great-great-great-grandchild" of the Immigration article), does anyone reading this feel inclined to contribute to a discussion I started on the [[Talk:Immigration#Size_of_article,_and_Immigration_and_crime_section |Immigration talk page here]]? Someone at the Teahouse suggested that I post a query on some of the related Project pages to attract interested editors, but looking at those pages, I'm not sure they're the right place to post. Any other suggestions? [[User:Laterthanyouthink|Laterthanyouthink]] ([[User talk:Laterthanyouthink|talk]]) 06:43, 20 January 2019 (UTC) ::::::I took a glance and the only thing I'd say is that I wouldn't get too focused on size as a reason to split an article. I'd look first for ways to trim excessive detail throughout. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:59, 20 January 2019 (UTC) :::::::Thanks. I probably didn't make it clear, partly because I got temporarily diverted by wrongly calculating the size of the article and then wondering if it needed further splitting based on its apparent size. I wasn't really considering doing any further splits myself, just mainly trying to initiate discussion on what gets left behind in the parent article, and (related) how to deal with the same topic being dealt with in multiple places - which sometimes start off the same and then someone adds or changes something in one place and not the other, etc. etc. And (as a side issue) there's inconsistency amongst articles which deal with the relationship between immigration and crime. Perhaps I should delete and rephrase most of what I wrote in that section on the talk page to make it a bit clearer (and shorter). [[User:Laterthanyouthink|Laterthanyouthink]] ([[User talk:Laterthanyouthink|talk]]) 08:03, 20 January 2019 (UTC) :::::::P.S. For better or for worse, I've re-worded my post over there. I know I get too wordy sometimes - but I think I have clarified the issue for myself a bit, anyway. [[User:Laterthanyouthink|Laterthanyouthink]] ([[User talk:Laterthanyouthink|talk]]) 03:29, 21 January 2019 (UTC) ::::::::Good luck. Bear in mind that the topic is a controversial one, so while [[WP:BOLD]]ness is still the order of the day, be prepared to back off and discuss if there is resistance. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:14, 21 January 2019 (UTC) :::::::::Thanks! I've been doing a bit of editing on the two pages, as per my comments on the talk page there, but have confined myself to the mechanics of transclusion and the principle of which bit to include in the parent article at this point. I do intend to review some of the structures and content of related articles, but don't worry, I'm well aware of the potential for controversy so will be treading carefully. [[User:Laterthanyouthink|Laterthanyouthink]] ([[User talk:Laterthanyouthink|talk]]) 05:22, 21 January 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==Discussion at [[Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliability of news outlets in general]]== [[File:Burned laptop secumem 11.jpg|right|200px|thumb|An older computer loading EEng's talkpage (2019, colorized)<br />{{snd}}[[User:SemiHypercube|<b style="color:#090">Semi</b>]][[User talk:SemiHypercube|<i style="color:#099">Hyper</i>]][[Special:Contributions/SemiHypercube|<u style="color:#009">cube</u>]]]] [[File:Farm-Fresh eye.png|15px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Reliability of news outlets in general]]. [[User:Levivich|'''^Leviv<sub style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(45deg);">ich</sub>''']]<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(270deg);">[[User talk:Levivich|?]] [[Special:Contribs/Levivich|!]]</span> 01:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC){{Z48}}<!-- [[Template:Please see]] --> Also: my computer had ''four'' microprocessors but after loading your talk page I'm now down to three. [[User:Levivich|'''^Leviv<sub style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(45deg);">ich</sub>''']]<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(270deg);">[[User talk:Levivich|?]] [[Special:Contribs/Levivich|!]]</span> 01:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC) {{clear}} *Editors at this talk page have discussed, from time to time, various content issues pertaining to how recent events are covered. Editors interested in those issues may perhaps be interested in [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Current events noticeboard]]. Thanks. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 00:17, 13 February 2019 (UTC) *:To draw attention to Tryptofish's message just above, pinging parties who have shown an interest in current-events stuff: {{u|Drmies}}, {{u|Softlavender}}, {{u|Ritchie333}}, {{U|David Eppstein}}, [[User:JFG|JFG]], [[User:TheGracefulSlick]], [[User:Masem]], [[User:L3X1]], [[User:TonyBallioni]], [[User:El_C]],[[User:Atsme]],[[User:BU Rob13]],[[User:Mandruss]], [[User:K.e.coffman]], [[User:Rhododendrites]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:14, 13 February 2019 (UTC) ::*Thanks for the ping. Indeed, saw it via CD. Interesting idea, though haven't really had time to process it. As a friendly albeit frustrated aside, it took multiple tries to read and respond to this message. As someone who sometimes connects via lousy wifi , lousy computer, mobile, etc. (and who has had trouble even with none of the above) I find this talk page often unusable for its [arguably, I guess] intended purpose. Maybe 500k would be a reasonable already-quite-large compromise? :) FWIW. &mdash; <samp>[[User:Rhododendrites|<span style="font-size:90%;letter-spacing:1px;text-shadow:0px -1px 0px Indigo;">Rhododendrites</span>]] <sup style="font-size:80%;">[[User_talk:Rhododendrites|talk]]</sup></samp> \\ 23:35, 13 February 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Added bullets altered threading style == Hi EEng, fairly minor point, but I'd like to understand [[Special:diff/882505099|your addition of asterisks]] in front of my post of 07:57, 9 Feb two posts prior. This change also converted {{u|Nil Einne}}'s [[WP:THREAD|properly threaded]] column 1 '<code>:</code>' into an asterisk as well, thus stylistically unifying our two posts and making the threading harder to follow, imho. Such alterations are sometimes helpful and I do them myself on occasion, but in such cases I like to see an edit summary with something like, "Technical [[WP:TPO|TPO violation]] to improve threading, for ''&lt;reason>''." As I say, nbd, and you probably had a good reason, but I'd just like to know what it was. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 19:57, 9 February 2019 (UTC) :It seemed like a series of parallel comments was accumulating so I bulleted them to bring out the parallelism. However, not having had my coffee I apparently put a separate bullets on each of your paragraphs. I've fixed that now. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:15, 9 February 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Your recent behaviour on the Jeanne Calment page == For your information, see below. ===Help wanted for references to Garoyan's thesis=== A large part of the sections on Jeanne's Calment daily routine at the nursing home, and about her medical history there, are cited to Georges Garoyan's 1990 thesis: ''Cent-quatorze ans de vie ou la longue histoire de Jeanne Calment, doyenne d'âge de France'', published at the Aix-Marseille university. Does an editor have access to this document? We should review the citations, provide exact pages and quotes, and perhaps improve translations. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] ^{[[User talk:JFG|talk]]} 11:52, 27 January 2019 (UTC) [[File:Common-nuts.png|thumb|upright|Remember, you are what you eat. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]]]] :In other words, you, with the support of EEng, have randomly trashed the article without first reading the single most important source on Jeanne Calment. You have thereby deprived researchers of valuable Wikipedia information (most researchers, whether supporters or critics of Calment, cannot read the French sources). You ask belatedly for help, but why should anyone now trust you and work with you? This once-excellent article is a lost cause. Both of you, take this as a lesson for the future how not to behave on Wikipedia, please. [[Special:Contributions/86.162.86.5|86.162.86.5]] ([[User talk:86.162.86.5|talk]]) 09:23, 10 February 2019 (UTC) *Why do I get all the nuts? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:43, 10 February 2019 (UTC) ::If you think that's bad, try closing a longevity-related AfD, particularly as "no consensus". [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 14:55, 13 February 2019 (UTC) :::Ritchie has been there, done that, and [https://www.myshirtsmall.com/images/26053397.png gotten the t-shirt]. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;">[[User:MPants at work|<span style="color:green;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] [[User_talk:MPants at work|<small>Tell me all about it.</small>]]</span> 15:45, 13 February 2019 (UTC) ::::You should also see the flat-earther nuts that came out in email to support their POV on what [[Auguste Piccard]] saw in his balloon ride, after I semiprotected it. "Cling to your water pear religion as best you can ... The lengths the ball cultist will go are hysterical" !? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 19:35, 16 February 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == all of these discussions are old, and don... == ...''{{'}}t need to be on my talk page anymore.'' {{small|My typing is not as accurate as I'd like, and sometimes I hit the enter key when I meant to hit an apostrophe (maybe I'll hack together some custom Javascript so it doesn't post an edit when I press enter in the edit summary box; it doesn't do it in the main edit box after all.)}} Hey EEng! I've just returned, but I've noticed a hundred or so edits while I was on my hiatus, but I decided to give myself some time away from the wiki to reflect. I've planned them in .txt documents, and I'll be back and post them after I get them organized. I haven't lost my passion yet! Hopefully I've got a bit more sense now. But I must sincerely thank you. [[User:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:red">E to the Pi times i</span>]] ([[User talk:E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:green">talk</span>]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/E to the Pi times i|<span style="color:blue">contribs</span>]]) 00:09, 13 March 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == [[Draft:GPS Hospitality]] == Good morning E Hope you had your coffee, I sent this draft for review, If you are the reviewer please let me know what I have to do to improve in order to be accepted, also there is a section in [[Burger_King_franchises#United_States_2|Burger King franchises]] (at the bottom) and [[Talk:Burger_King_franchises#GPS_Hospitality|GPS Hospitality]] for ref of why I started this article ~ thanks ~ mitch ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 12:55, 26 April 2019 (UTC) :Hi {{U|Mitchellhobbs}}. I'm afraid I don't do much draft reviewing and don't know the procedures. Perhaps someone watching this page will step in to help. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:28, 26 April 2019 (UTC) : Cool, Thanks [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 16:51, 26 April 2019 (UTC) ::[[GPS Hospitality]] ~ Thank you [[User:Mitchellhobbs|Mitchellhobbs]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 20:31, 26 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Notre-Dame fire == Well, I understand you guys prefer disorder in images... I otherwise like order in images layout... Why too much empty blank spaces in page ? when my way could resolve a better approach all images together... Then a space between symbold like € of currency and numbers give a better reading... https://imgur.com/gpJRc6y --[[Special:Contributions/88.70.23.126|88.70.23.126]] ([[User talk:88.70.23.126|talk]]) 15:25, 18 June 2019 (UTC) :Your screenshot shows you're using an unusually wide window, so what you're seeing is atypical. Whatever your personal taste, WP house style is that nonalphabetic currency symbols are not followed by a space -- see [[MOS:CURRENCY]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:18, 18 June 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == It's amazing == [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO9U_XxN-Kc Kevin Hart] - has to be something here for the Museum. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 20:29, 14 May 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==User page== Enjoyed your comments on Trump. Although I am from Canada, I do watch the ABC Evening News and feel slightly nauseated by his behaviour! We feel your pain. This is a real test to see if your Founding Fathers put enough checks and balances in the Constitution to protect America against tyranny. - [[User:Ret.Prof|Ret.Prof]] ([[User talk:Ret.Prof|talk]]) 14:22, 29 May 2019 (UTC) :Ah yes, would make a great gameshow.... ''[[Jeopardy!|Tyranny!]]'' [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:40, 29 May 2019 (UTC) ::LOL Agreed. - [[User:Ret.Prof|Ret.Prof]] ([[User talk:Ret.Prof|talk]]) 15:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC) :::Tyranny? Do you mean Trudeau? [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]} 15:14, 29 May 2019 (UTC) ::::Hey, isn't he that [[Call Me Irresponsible (album)|dishy young pop singer]]?? [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:20, 29 May 2019 (UTC) :::::LOL...Remember hate, lying, greed and bragging about your fornications, adultries and sex abuse are not Christian regardless what the Religious Right says! In any event with all the evidence of wrongdoing Impeachment now seems inevitable. I plan to tune in! - [[User:Ret.Prof|Ret.Prof]] ([[User talk:Ret.Prof|talk]]) 14:05, 30 May 2019 (UTC) PS I am planning a WP article on this topic. {{Clear}} == June 2019 == [[Image:Information.svg|25px|alt=Information icon]] Hello. I wanted to let you know that in your recent contributions&nbsp;to [[:Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution]], you seemed to act as if you were the owner of the page. Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to Wikipedia. This means that editors [[WP:OWN|do not own articles]], including ones they create, and should respect the work of their fellow contributors. If you create or edit an article, remember that others are free to change its content. Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Introduction|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. ''Apparently, the article needs to be only as clear as you deem appropriate.''<!-- Template:uw-own1 --> [[User:SMP0328.|SMP0328.]] ([[User talk:SMP0328.|talk]]) 05:16, 22 June 2019 (UTC) :We've worked together too long for you to template me. Your edit summaries -- please look at them -- were somewhat fractured so that they didn't really explain why you were adding all that verbiage. I've made a new change -- far more concise -- which I think you will find satisfactory. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:26, 22 June 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Herbert Schachtschneider == {{User QAIbox | title = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Images 2019|June]] | image = Kornblumen, Ehrenbach.jpg | image_upright = 0.8 | bold = [[Centaurea cyanus|cornflowers]] | normal = ... with thanks from [[WP:QAI|QAI]] }} Thank you - sorry, a bit late - for the hook help for [[Herbert Schachtschneider]]. You are very welcome to go over my stalled nominations and help further to increase attraction. Two of "mine" made the stats in June without help, [[Elisabeth Erdmann-Macke|one for the exquisite pic]] (the second), the other because she [[Ellen Schwiers|starred as the Buhlschaft]], but there are countless others ... --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 12:46, 21 June 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==DYK for J. J. Stiffler== {{ivmbox |image = Updated DYK query.svg |imagesize=40px |text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#28 September 2019|28 September 2019]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[J. J. Stiffler]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that '''[[J. J. Stiffler]]'''{{`s}} "unparalleled" and "landmark" ''Theory of Synchronous Communications'' (1971) sprang from [[NASA]]'s need for power-efficient synchronization of data transmission for its [[space probe]]s?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/J. J. Stiffler]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2019-09-18&end=2019-10-08&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=J._J._Stiffler J. J. Stiffler])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]]. }}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> [[User:Maile66|— Maile ]] ([[User talk:Maile66|talk]]) 00:01, 28 September 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == RfC notice (low priority) == Based on your participation in an earlier discussion, you are invited to comment at [[WNGH-TV#RfC about TV and radio station style variances]]. Thanks. – [[User:Reidgreg|Reidgreg]] ([[User talk:Reidgreg|talk]]) 19:15, 27 December 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Please comment on my technical proposal. == Hi EEng, I was hoping you could share your thoughts on my Edit Values technical proposal before I actually present it. It can be found here [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:May_His_Shadow_Fall_Upon_You/EditValues]]. Thanks! <span style="background:#444;padding:2px 12px">[[User:May His Shadow Fall Upon You|<span style="color:#fff">May His Shadow Fall Upon You</span>]] [[User talk:May His Shadow Fall Upon You|<span style="color:#fff"><sup>Talk</sup></span>]]</span> 19:52, 6 September 2019 (UTC) :Happy to. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:58, 6 September 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Please comment on [[Wikipedia talk:Community response to the Wikimedia Foundation's ban of Fram#rfc_7B36696|Wikipedia talk:Community response to the Wikimedia Foundation's ban of Fram]] == The [[WP:Feedback request service|feedback request service]] is asking for participation in [[Wikipedia talk:Community response to the Wikimedia Foundation's ban of Fram#rfc_7B36696|this request for comment on '''Wikipedia talk:Community response to the Wikimedia Foundation's ban of Fram''']]. <!-- Template:FRS message --> <!-- FRS id 106575 --> [[User:Legobot|Legobot]] ([[User talk:Legobot|talk]]) 04:32, 15 July 2019 (UTC) :Stalkers may wish to take the time to comment. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:58, 15 July 2019 (UTC) ::This stalker's sense of masochism has strict bounds. — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 23:09, 15 July 2019 (UTC) :::So your [[safeword]] is ''FRAM''? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 13:43, 16 July 2019 (UTC) ::::I'm allergic.&nbsp; [[User:Dlohcierekim|Dlohcierekim]] ([[User talk:Dlohcierekim|talk]]) 14:01, 16 July 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == [[Laura Ashley Hall]] == [[File:Anderson_Cooper_(45398950021).jpg|thumb|You see this guy? He's an [[News anchor|anchor]], people leave him alone.]] Hey EEng! Can you tell me why the redirect (not saying you had anything to do with it{lol}) goes to [[Murder of Jennifer Cave]]? I don't know how to fix redirects thats why I'm asking. Thanks :The above is what I wrote off the top of my head ~ having read further down the article I see what hall has to do with the murder. The only reason I'm leaving this edit here is ~~ this question ~ 'Can you redirect to a spefic section in an article and if so how? Thanks EEng [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 13:56, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *Well after reading more of the article ~ no need to redirect to a section ~ I would just like to know though, maybe for next time ~ regards ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 14:18, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *: <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Target page name#Target section name]]</nowiki> —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 16:18, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *::Thanks [[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]]. [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 17:16, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *:::I always think it's a good idea, instead of linking to the section by its actual name, to add an {{t|anchor}} at the top of the section with some slightly different string, and link to that. Section names get changed now and then, and this will break the link, but people leave anchors alone. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:31, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *::::<small>Have always been a big fan of her [[Laura Ashley|tasteful floral prints]], but had no idea she had a [[Ashley Hall, Cheshire|whole Hall]] to her name. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:49, 8 October 2019 (UTC) </small> *:::::<small>Looks more like a [[Bridle path|path]] than a [[Golden Hall (Stockholm City Hall)|hall]] ~ them British sure do get things off the ordinary track ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 20:03, 16 October 2019 (UTC) *:::::::One wonders if [[The World Turned Upside Down|The Donald]] even knows where [[Wrong Side of the Road|Australia]] is. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:14, 16 October 2019 (UTC) *::::::::I would say something but I applied for a job with the [[United States Secret Service|FBI]] ~ don't want to ruin my chances ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 20:48, 16 October 2019 (UTC)</small> *:::::::::I can understand that, Mitch. If we [[Deepfake|can't trust]] our great [[Leaders of the Free World|leaders]], then who can [[Putin khuylo!|we trust]]?! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:35, 16 October 2019 (UTC) </small> *:::::Hi Martinevans123! ~ I was looking at a bed a breakfast somewhere east of the Atlantic ~ which led me to a comforter ~ then to her article here ~ and after I typed LA I saw 'Hall' so being adventurous ~ well here we are again ~lol [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 20:01, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *::::::[[Dowlais]] has some lovely "bijou" B&Bs, this time of year, I hear. Oooh, I could really murder a good [https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/story-behind-one-wales-greatest-8532931 Afghan sofa throw]! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:09, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *:::::::I started listening to bagpipes this morning to get me [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWd8iH0uBSg motivated] before my cup of coffee ~ at 1:56 into the flick, I saw Laura Ashley ~ I never even heard of them before ~ (I have heard of [[Old Spice|Old Spice though]]) ~ well now I have been [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8A9Y1Dq_cQ listening to angels] ~ so I took it as I sign ''I should go to Scotland some day'' ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 20:31, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *:::::::::Wow, well spotted. Yes, that's [http://eastgateshopping.co.uk/shop/laura-ashley this one], located [[Eastgate Shopping Centre (Inverness)|here]]. But I'd like to point out that Laura was '''[[Welsh–Scottish League|Welsh not Scottish]],''' even though [[Results of the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum#Wales|52.53% of voters in Wales]] voted to leave the EU, compared with only [[Results of the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum#Scotland|38.00% of voters in Scotland]]..... (reason enough to want to go and stay [[The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond|north of the border]], I guess). [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:46, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *::::::::Danger lurks around every corner: https://www.newsweek.com/musicians-urged-clean-instruments-after-bagpiper-dies-492695 [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:59, 8 October 2019 (UTC) *:::::::::You're [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq1kVLHxCQA not kiddin']. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 14:50, 10 October 2019 (UTC) *::::::::::Good morning Martinevans123 ~ sounds like another [[Whale vocalization|bagpiper]] I know. [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 15:13, 10 October 2019 (UTC) *:::::::::::[[Chim Chim Cher-ee|"Cor' blimey, Moiry Pappins!!"]] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 15:35, 10 October 2019 (UTC) "You go to Europe and the roads are opposite". My word, this must rank alongside "what did the [[Kurds in Syria|Kurds]] ever do for us in [[Normandy landings|Normandy]]?" comment, as a breath-taking pinnacle of intelligent analysis. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:43, 16 October 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Anchors away! ⚓️ == [[File:Pg 010 - Capture of the Galleon (bw).jpg|thumb| <poem>The three scallywiggins, they washed their mizzens, And hung them out to dry, "Ahoy, Martinevans, did you not hear, The scallywiggins washed their mizzens?" "What?! Washed their mizzens, the old scallywiggens; I smell a rat close by!" "Yo, ho, me hearty, that’s not a rat, It’s a Tryptofish ready to fry." YOU KIDS GET OFF MY [[Sea lane|SEA LAWN]]!</poem> [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]]] Ok, following is an example of the [[WP:Anchors]] I was referring to for use in the Museum. Click on [[User talk:Atsme#Wisest | "The Wisest Man Who Ever Lived"]] where there's a link to Rigsby's commencement address OR if you prefer, you can bypass that one, and click [[User talk:Atsme#BLP | this BLP]] wikilink which takes you to a specific quote boxed discussion on my UTP. I was going to anchor a couple of items in your Museum that I've had occasion to reference but you are the curator, and I dare not trespass without permission. Besides, you may not like the idea, or have a better one in mind. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:02, 9 December 2019 (UTC) :{{u|Atsme}}, Anchors ya say matey? Me seafarin' ways taught me a lot about real anchors, but WikiAnchors...a whole new beast! Only anchor I see regularly is in my signature...but I like your clever use of anchors. [[User:CaptainEek|<span style="color:#6a1f7f">'''Captain Eek'''</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:CaptainEek|<span style="font-size:82%"><span style="color:#a479e5">''Edits Ho Cap'n!''</span></span>]]</sup>[[Special:Contributions/CaptainEek|⚓]] 01:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC) ::Well shiver me timbers!! Ahoy, me hearty! It's been a while since we shared some grog. <big>🍻🏴‍☠️</big> Collect some killicks, lass - they'll serve you well. All hand hoy! It's time to weigh anchor and hoist the mizzen! [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 02:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC) :::Please leave my mizzen out of this; I'm very sensitive about it. Is it [[International Talk Like a Pirate Day]] again? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:06, 9 December 2019 (UTC) ::::[[Splice the mainbrace]], ye old sea dogs!! Or ye'll get a taste of [[Ship's cat|the cat]]! All together now, me old [[Faggot voter|sea faggots]].... ''[[Good Ship Venus|'Twas on the Good Ship Wikimus]]''... etc., etc..... [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 19:13, 9 December 2019 (UTC) :::::Help! Somebody's [[frying]] my [[Juvenile fish|fry]]! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:52, 9 December 2019 (UTC) ::::::And it's [[Saturday Night Fish Fry|not even Saturday]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:54, 9 December 2019 (UTC) :::::::And it [[Never on Sunday|couldn't be Sunday]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:00, 9 December 2019 (UTC) :::::::This is taking me back to my childhood: [[Seafood]]. [[Dick and Jane|See food run. Run food run.]]. I realize that might prompt the curator to tell us to get off of [[seagrass|his lawn]], but there's really no reason to get into [[sea snot|a snit]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC) [[File:Scrooges third visitor-John Leech,1843.jpg|thumb|Book title: "Balls of Fire" by Jack Benimble<br/>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 12:38, 10 December 2019 (UTC)]] *Um, you guys do know that the phrase is ''anchors aweigh'', right? Anchors ''away'' would mean something like throwing the anchors overboard. Atsme, you're welcome to add anchors to my user page. I recommend that you also use permalinks since the day may come when some snitty admin ties to make me remove all that facetious Trump material which does not, in fact, seriously imply that the President of the United States is a sociopathic moron who has not the faintest idea how anything works [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGChTEfeeC4] (It also does not seriously imply that his vocabulary is that of an eight-year-old -- if the eight-year old was being raised in a brothel.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:01, 10 December 2019 (UTC) P.S. I actually wrote a paper once which contained this passage: {{tq|Fade in. Exterior, daytime. A wharf alongships. Jolly sailors batten down the mizzenmast and bilge-bail the fo'c'sle as they prepare to weigh anchor and shove off for Beantown. Avast of the yardarm, a daft coxswain foists hey on the jim-bob.}} [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 11:01, 10 December 2019 (UTC) ::Yes, as in [[Over the Rainbow|weigh a pie]]. But that sounds [[Jim Bob|very unfair]]. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 11:21, 10 December 2019 (UTC) :::Thanks, EEng. Re: "away" - simply a play on words - as in anchors are a way to link directly - the latter preceded by a play on a proverb I didn't mention, "where there's a Wills there's a way" (my RL surname being Wills). Carry on. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 12:11, 10 December 2019 (UTC) Adding: while perusing the Museum, one of the images inspired thoughts of a new section. I added an example. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 12:38, 10 December 2019 (UTC) ::::[[Captain Haddock|"Billions of bilious blue blistering barnacles!"]] [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 13:20, 10 December 2019 (UTC) :::::New book titles: ''[[Arachnoquake]]'' by [[Little Miss Muffet]] and ''[[Bye, baby Bunting]]'' by [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/chris-watts-case-investigators-are-still-reeling-how-does-happen-n1096526 Chris Watts] - egads! [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 14:40, 10 December 2019 (UTC) ::EEng, please be careful! Atsme just put an anchor in your underwear! [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AEEng&type=revision&diff=930127816&oldid=929743050]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:23, 10 December 2019 (UTC) :::[[File:La verdadera risa.gif|20px]] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D"><sup>Atsme</sup></span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]</sub> [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:53, 10 December 2019 (UTC) :::::"Hey you cows, get on my [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mSWH-R-Sn8 lawn]!" [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 23:03, 10 December 2019 (UTC) <small>'''Note:''' ad voiced by "legendary UK disc jockey" [[David Jensen|David "Kid" Jensen]]: [https://audioboom.com/posts/1911013-david-jensen-advert-anchor-butter] </small> {{Clear}} == Pace Owl == I noticed the first action of the apparent "Mr Space Owl" sock was to [[Special:Diff/933742267|restore]] a change made by one "Dr Horncastle" [[Special:Diff/918371669/921074886|here]], the latter being a [[Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Eric Corbett/Archive|known sock of Eric Corbett]]. Then there's the odd similarity in the style of username. I think the edit itself was fine, but doesn't this seem like ''too much'' of a coincidence? I can't figure out why the Corbett sock would be editing an obscure page {{diff|Farmers and Fishermen: Two Centuries of Work in Essex County, Massachusetts, 1630–1850|921074886|918371669|like this one}} (on the day after Mrs Pace Owl was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mrspaceowl&oldid=920964903#October_2019 blocked for edit-warring]) unless there's some connection. —[[User:Sangdeboeuf|Sangdeboeuf]] ([[User talk:Sangdeboeuf|talk]]) 05:18, 3 January 2020 (UTC) :Maybe, but I think even E.C.'s substantial powers of duplicity are insufficient for delivery of so effective an impersonation of a demented Buddhist. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:22, 3 January 2020 (UTC) :''[[Farmers and Fishermen: Two Centuries of Work in Essex County, Massachusetts, 1630–1850|Sockers and Sockmen: 14 Years of Work on Wikipedia (... and that's all the thanks I get)]].'' Nice article. [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:59, 3 January 2020 (UTC) ::Past misdeeds or no, would EC really [[Special:Diff/933767491|clearly and obviously falsify the direct text of a source]]? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 20:08, 3 January 2020 (UTC) :::<small> Hmmm, yes, he'd probably rather get his [[Ugly sisters|eyes pecked out by pigeons and doves]]. [[Brothers Grimm|Wilhelm Grimm 123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 20:28, 3 January 2020 (UTC) </small> :::: All good points. I had no history with EC, just noticed some odd parallels. Good to know it's just my imagination. —[[User:Sangdeboeuf|Sangdeboeuf]] ([[User talk:Sangdeboeuf|talk]]) 20:48, 3 January 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Greetings == {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Remy Martin 1738 ~Mitchell Hobbs~.jpg|100px]] |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''~ Happy Holidays ~ ''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | ~ Have a great New Year too EEng ~ [[User:Mitchellhobbs|~mitch~]] ([[User talk:Mitchellhobbs|talk]]) 10:34, 21 December 2019 (UTC) |} {{Clear}} == How == I'm not Hafspajen or Chaplin, I do have a question for you. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 08:01, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :OK, go ahead and ask your question. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:07, 20 November 2020 (UTC)\ ::Maybe a couple questions but we'll start with why did you revert my edit? Née means maiden name and my edit was correct. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 08:08, 20 November 2020 (UTC) ::::No it wasn't. That's not what née actually means, the way you wrote it in your edit is not how it should be used, and in any case that information doesn't belong at that point of that article. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 08:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :::{{ec}} Actually, ''née'' means "born". Your edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=989658936] was not correct, because Jill Biden's birth name wasn't "Jacobs Biden". [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 08:20, 20 November 2020 (UTC) ::::Why is this other user chiming in? I am editing the other part of the article as well. Yes, her name wasn't Jacobs; it was Stevenson. However she doesn't use Jacobs. The way it should be written within the article is Jill Tracy née Stevenson Jacobs Biden. You're quick to revert something when it's incorrect as it is. I guess Jill Jacobs Biden would work for the template. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 08:31, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :::::In articles about other people, we generally only use the common version of the name, the one that is the title of her article. There is no need, for instance, to place great emphasis on her Sicilian ancestry (where the Jacobs comes from), because it's not relevant there. And since you [[WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT|didn't hear it]] when we said it the previous times, that's not how "née" is used. It doesn't go into the middle of someone's name like that. "Jill Tracy née Stevenson Jacobs Biden" would (ignoring the missing comma) refer to someone now called "Jill Tracy" but whose full birth name was "Stevenson Jacobs Biden". You cannot stick "née" into the middle of a name and expect it to make sense. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 08:53, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :I'm sure I have many, even numerous questions for you, DE. Saw you're an admin too. It's not "sticking" née into something. First no one really knows her name, not many anyway. Absolutely no one calls her Jill Jacobs. If you want to fix it, go ahead. It's not right how it is now. Second it's two separate things, fixing the template mention and the one in the article. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 08:59, 20 November 2020 (UTC) ::"Jill Jacobs" in the infobox is fine as it is now. It gives her birth name. And Jill Biden has never changed her first name from Stevenson to Jill, so your proposed change is wrong. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 09:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :::You are not listening! Let's assume you are wrong for a minute. One Jill Biden is wrong too. It doesn't even say that. Two we agree her name is Jill Tracy Stevenson (née would go in front of Stevenson) Jacobs (wherever that is supposed to go) Biden. Three you seem quick to dismiss something that isn't right. I guess you could look at other templates and you see there's a standard way to list spouses. Four I guess you have an opinion on Larry Sanger. He doesn't like Wikipedia now and many people are starting to see the site fails in some respects. What say you? [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 09:07, 20 November 2020 (UTC) ::::I'm sorry, Howdoesitgo1, but what you're saying makes no sense at all. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:49, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :::::I guess I will have to elaborate for you to understand. Jill Biden's name is not listed correctly on the page we're talking about. You are both right that née means born (maiden name is the name a woman is born with, by the way). I am not right all the time although maybe I am right most of the time. Her name is Jill Tracy (middle name) née Stevenson (the last name she was born with) Jacobs (I guess that goes before Stevenson Biden. {{Od}}Almost no one you could run across knows her as anything other than Jill Biden. Jill Jacobs is decidedly not her name. Does that make sense now? Also I was saying this site seems quick to allow things that shouldn't be allowed. You were pretty quick to revert something that is wrong as it is now also. I could cite many other big topics that are incorrect on here but those can wait. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 10:07, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :Great Ghu! Does the [[WP:MOS]] speak to this? I seldom if ever have seen ''nee'' used like this on Wikipedia. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 10:14, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :For instance, the article about the lovely wife of Richard NIxon ''does not'' contain "''née ''" in the info box. In the lead it's "Thelma Catherine "Pat" Nixon (née Ryan; March 16, 1912 – June 22, 1993)". Elaborate at will, but it seems quite simple to ''me''. --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 10:21, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :Looks like [[WP:MOS]] says neither "yea" nor "nay" on "''née ''". --<b>[[User:Deepfriedokra|<span style="color:black">Deep</span><span style="color:red">fried</span><span style="color:DarkOrange">okra</span>]] [[User talk:Deepfriedokra|(<span style="color:black">talk</span>)]]</b> 10:26, 20 November 2020 (UTC) [[File:Carpet Cleaning Machine Rug Doctor.jpg|thumb|upright=.7|Let me help.[[user talk:deepfriedokra|DFO]]]] ::In the info box her name would be different, it would be Jill Jacobs Biden. Well look at that, it says Pat Ryan in the info box. Ok, so info boxes are wrong on here it seems. Nevertheless it should say Jill Tracy Jacobs née Stevenson Biden in the article. I guess a bigger topic is that this site, Wikipedia has some problems. Users are deleting information that should be left alone. It's been pointed out that the site is biased now too. It's pretty tough standing up to the revisionists. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 10:31, 20 November 2020 (UTC) ::: :::[[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]], since you seem to be ignoring everyone trying to explain this to you, let me put this simply and in bold: '''that is not how you use "née", even if there's consensus that "née" is appropriate'''. If she was born "Jill Jacobs", later became "Jill Stevenson", and is now "Jill Biden", then (if and only if) there were consensus to include every permutation of the name (which there isn't), the correct form would be "Jill Biden, née Jacobs, formerly Stevenson". Your preferred formula of "Jill Tracy Jacobs née Stevenson Biden" would mean that she was christened "Jill Stevenson Biden" but now calls herself "Jill Tracy Jacobs". Given the number of people who've explained this to you, you can't use "I wasn't aware" as an excuse; if you continue to push this you'll be dealt with as we deal with anyone else who deliberately tries to insert incorrect information into a Wikipedia article.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 14:07, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :::: When the time comes please take it outside. I just had the carpets shampooed and bloodstains can be awful stubborn. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:43, 20 November 2020 (UTC) ::::::Yeah, and that reminds me, I néed to get my knée replaced. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 00:44, 22 November 2020 (UTC) :::::[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoYsfbq3vMc] [[User:Objective3000|O3000]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 19:00, 20 November 2020 (UTC) *EEng, you're odd. Iridescent, I didn't say I have the name right. No one wants to realize the name is wrong how it's on there now. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 22:01, 20 November 2020 (UTC) :Jill Biden, née Jacobs, formerly Stevenson seems alright. I note people don't like to discuss things on talk pages. It's incorrect to revert talk pages on Wikipedia, particularly ones about a subject. [[User:Howdoesitgo1|Howdoesitgo1]] ([[User talk:Howdoesitgo1|talk]]) 22:05, 20 November 2020 (UTC) ::No idea what you're saying, sorry. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:52, 20 November 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Submission to the Museums == Describing the planning of the Suez Canal as "[[Barthélemy Prosper Enfantin|he planned to penetrate the feminine Orient with the masculine Occident in a consumation of progression]]" is such a gem of machine translation I don't even have the heart to remove it.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 21:46, 5 January 2019 (UTC) :The Curator has adjoined your contribution [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=877007285] to an existing item also relating to unusual foreign adventures. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:25, 5 January 2019 (UTC) ::[[Proctoclysis#Monument|I haven't the heart to remove this, either]].&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 15:32, 6 January 2019 (UTC) :::[https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=877099882] No matter what, they're preserved in perpetuity here in The Museums. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:49, 6 January 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Miss Snodgrass is willing to chat == Hello, dahling! How do yew dooo! Really, my deah, I am SO happy yew recognized me from across that crowded room. Happy to make your acquaintance. I have no hard feelings of cawse! (We are all in the madcap environment togethah, right?) Toodles! Your new friend, you know, the one who has [[User:BeenAroundAWhile|BeenAroundAWhile]] ([[User talk:BeenAroundAWhile|talk]]) 17:11, 16 February 2019 (UTC) :Oh look, there's that call I've been expecting! Sorry, gotta take this. There are canapes in the fridge. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:18, 16 February 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == 6:00 am inspiration == I think it might be a good idea for those who watch the various MOS pages and are active on their talkpages to stop answering general style questions and instead refer them to the language refdesk. My reasoning is that a lot of the negativity directed towards the MOS and its "regulars" comes from seeing the talkpage of a style guideline being used for answering style questions that are not covered by said guideline. This gives the answers the appearance of consensus-based legitimacy and any critisism of that is, I think, totally valid. The talkpages should be for improvement-based suggestions and clarification of existing guidance. No? I'm sending this to several people so please respond on my talkpage. Thanks. [[User:Primergrey|Primergrey]] ([[User talk:Primergrey|talk]]) 14:34, 19 February 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Inspiration is not striking == Can anyone give me a good DYK hook for [[Nickey Barclay]]? There must be some way of linking [[Fanny]] and [[Barbra Streisand]] in a humorous way; I just can't see it yet. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 16:46, 24 February 2019 (UTC) :Gosh, I'm drawing a blank as well. Sorry. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:48, 24 February 2019 (UTC) ::I couldn't come up with anything particularly good either. I ''don't'' think any puns on "fanny" would be a good idea, especially with BLP. Might be best to go with "...that musician Nickey Barclay collaborated with..." and list some of the famous names. By the way, there are a lot of duplicate links. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC) ::::{{tq|I ''don't'' think any puns on "fanny" would be a good idea}}{{snd}}Why, because Barbra Streisand might sue us to keep people from knowing about it? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:44, 25 February 2019 (UTC) :::::::True, I've been proven wrong, or at least unfunny. I'm glad to see that I inspired some better ideas. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC) :::{{u|Ritchie333}} - I got it!! Barbra Streisand had Nickey Barclay’s Fanny on the album, Stoney End. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 23:07, 24 February 2019 (UTC) ::::Good work! I must be off my game today. Let me sharpen it a bit: :::::''... that one of Barbra Streisand's albums has [[Nickey Barclay]]’s Fanny on it?'' ::::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:44, 25 February 2019 (UTC) :::::Brevity is the soul of wit. <sup>[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]][[User talk:Atsme |✍🏻]][[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</sup> 02:29, 25 February 2019 (UTC) ::There are ENGVAR versions of "fanny" east of the Atlantic which make the hooks more risqué than in the Americas. Not necessarily a showstopper, but something to be aware of. - [[User:Ryk72|Ryk72]] <sup>[[User talk:Ryk72|'c.s.n.s.']]</sup> 04:24, 25 February 2019 (UTC) :::The more risque the better, I always say. Happy to give those uptight Brits a thrill. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:41, 25 February 2019 (UTC) :::: I've gone with ''... that two of [[Barbra Streisand]]'s albums have '''[[Nickey Barclay|some Fanny]]''' on them?'' Incidentally, a few years back there was an ANI thread where a bunch of IPs were edit-warring on Streisand's main article and calling anyone who disagreed with them a "Barbra hater" but I can't find it now. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 11:17, 25 February 2019 (UTC) :::::If that's what you're happy with, then suggest moving the wlink as "... some [[:Nickey Barclay|Fanny]] ...". - [[User:Ryk72|Ryk72]] <sup>[[User talk:Ryk72|'c.s.n.s.']]</sup> 11:25, 25 February 2019 (UTC) ::::::*DYK although Nickey Barclay played with Fanny, Cocker and Ball she never performed for Barclays Bank. [[User:Xanthomelanoussprog|Xanthomelanoussprog]] ([[User talk:Xanthomelanoussprog|talk]]) 12:20, 25 February 2019 (UTC) ::::::*:I'd leave the bank out of it but the cocker and balls have potential. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:59, 25 February 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Continuing ANI question == Why would removing a valid comment to any editor requesting edit summary comments need to be let go? I actually want an answer as to why deleting someone else's talk page request should be considered acceptable. When did no discussing become an acceptable behaviour on Wikipedia: both from editors and admins? [[User:Walter Görlitz|Walter Görlitz]] ([[User talk:Walter Görlitz|talk]]) 23:23, 18 March 2019 (UTC) :An IP with an extensive contribution history and long user talk page makes ''one edit'' without an edit summary, and you go leaving them a warning? WTF? When Serial Number removed your warning, that should have tipped you off to the fact that you were off base. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:53, 18 March 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == What's happening? == [[File:Lennon-McCartney.JPG|thumb|And now my life has changed in oh so many ways<br/> My independence seems to vanish in the haze]] Top of the morning to you, <s>Ringo</s> Paul!! I wanted to share a few thoughts about recent trends, and what I find extremely disconcerting about WP these days. I think you've noticed it, too. I'm speaking of the subtle transition in the way a few of our admins are swinging their mops. It appears more like ''duty creep'' that has transitioned from a focus on fighting vandals and stopping disruption to the [[cognitive restructuring]] of editors by using their tools to control the narrative. What ever happened to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMBhDv4sik "Think different"?] Is WP becoming a homogenized project because of [[groupthink]], and what appears to be either a lack of or suppression of [[creative thinking]] skills and free thought? It's one thing to keep the prose in our articles dispassionate and neutral but doing so should neither prevent it from being engaging, nor absent of all significant views - but that is exactly what's happening. Engaging readers is how we capture their interest vs alienating at least half of them with a large dose of [[WP:POV creep]]. Of course, WP will survive and grow because of the trivia and COI articles that inundate us now, but what are we growing into? In my experiences, citing a WP article in a discussion becomes a battle over fact and opinion because WP is considered unreliable and is quickly dismissed which drives our readers to seek knowledge elsewhere. Do you see that as a potentially dangerous trend? The internet itself is a trend and serves as the host for trends, all of which are driven by popularity. Someone somewhere is building a better mousetrap, and if it turns out to be more reliable, fact-based and neutral which is what WP started out to be, what will happen then? How dependable is the loyalty of WP volunteers, especially when we're being treated like [[WP:5THWHEEL|disposable nobodies]] under the control of thought police? Just a few thoughts from an over-thinker. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 12:04, 9 November 2020 (UTC) ::''For those playing along at home, Atsme's opening reference is to my recent confession (at AN) that I am actually Ringo Starr.'' [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] :How about a couple of illustrative links? [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:08, 9 November 2020 (UTC) ::I'm not in a position to actually narrow it down to a particular diff because of an ongoing discussion, so I'll just say Jimbo's TP is full of examples. Also to consider is DS AE in general because unilateral actions can be made at an admin's sole discretion, and cannot be overturned by another admin as is the case with normal blocks or t-bans. Granted, we have some excellent admins but it only takes a few aggressive types to influence an entire process. When admins start modifying PAGs to fit their POV, and have become so involved in a topic area that they form preconceived notions about particular editors and how they think that editor will act in a situation, that's prejudice. In the big picture, it's ''the calm before the storm''. It's one of the initial steps to homogenization. Another initial step is the limiting and deliberate selection of what resources can be cited for inclusion of information/material. Take it from there, maestro. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 15:21, 9 November 2020 (UTC) :::Problem is, for whatever reason I do very little editing in DS areas, so I'm only vaguely tuned in to what you're talking about. I also stay away from the ol' Jimbo talk page, and from the sound of things that's the way it should stay. I'm concerned at your distress, but I'm struggling to find a way to relieve it. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:55, 12 November 2020 (UTC) :What's the buzz? Tell them what's a-happenin'. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbGEuNi2SKs] (From the same collection, here's [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMgCUcmJkI the last time a group of editors approached EEng about running for admin]. I think he misunderstood when I said, "Christ, what more do you need to convince you?" Anyway, it didn't convince him.) [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 05:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC) ::I prefer an informal atmosphere, so you can just call me Jesus. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:16, 12 November 2020 (UTC) ::::::<small>And thus the lumbago: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AEEng&type=revision&diff=974915416&oldid=974878119]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:45, 12 November 2020 (UTC)</small> :::In my limited experience, sweeping statements about the "declining state of Wikipedia" usually have their origins in very specific disputes concerning certain articles, WikiProjects, topic areas, editors or admins. For example, I don't think we can judge the quality of the entire project based on a dozen articles on the current political situation in the U.S. :::I can understand not wanting to name names and escalate this currently abstract discussion but it's important to ground statements about the quality of Wikipedia with specific examples so one can evaluate the merits of the argument being made. Just my 2 cents. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</sup> 06:28, 12 November 2020 (UTC) ::::There are some good examples discussed at [[Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#NPOV-problems on Wikipedia]]. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 06:38, 12 November 2020 (UTC) :::::Ok, let's keep this going. It's funny how tempest in a teapot cases can end with a one-way ticket on the [[WP:POV railroad]],<sup>choo-choo</sup> but not a total loss if it provides further fodder for future filings.<sup>[[WP:5Fs]]</sup> On point: AE/DS, one need look no further than the words "discretionary", "unilateral", [[WP:BLOCKP|"preventative"]], and "backsliding into past behaviors", all of which are defined in a rather muddled and dubious fashion or simply as generalities with countless loopholes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't adminship created for the purpose of fighting vandals, socks and stopping real [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy#Disruption|disruption]]? Nowhere in our blocking policy does it say that it's acceptable to drop the ban hammer for the following reasons: [[WP:DONTLIKEIT]], [[cognitive restructuring]], [[Wikipedia:PREJUDICED]], or [[WP:POLD]], relevant or not. EEng's probably thinking - You kids get off my lawn!! So I'm thinking I'll make him a sign that reads ''Keep off the grass!'' and one for me that reads ''Keep off my ass!'' Following is my rendition of AE/DS in action: you make a wisecrack or spout off something under the DS umbrella that an admin doesn't like, and your ass gets blocked at their discretion, despite your comment having one or more of the following descriptors: {{fbdb}}, {{stretch}} or {{hyper}}. That's how bad things have gotten. Credit's due where it's earned so I'll just say ''Excellent way to disincentivize productive editors!'' I realize that nobody gives a big <big><big>🐀</big></big> [[File:SMirC-ass.svg|x20px|(_*_)]] about what I think, and neither do I for the most part, so back on point - the biggest problem with DS/AE is that an admin's action can't be overturned without an act of congress,{{hyper}} accompanied by some [[File:Beggar on the Avenue des Champs Elysees, Paris 2010 (cropped).jpg|50px]] and eating a big ole helping of [[File:Russell Crowe.jpg|30px]]. In hopes of defusing the chilling effects of allegations such as ''woke editors being enablers of the "scorned"'', I will just point out that blind alliances are what enable the accuser to make such degrading comments with impunity, especially if it stems from prejudice, misconceptions and [[WP:POV creep]], inadvertent or otherwise. Isn't it time for the community to make a few tweaks here and there, and put things back into proper perspective? I'm not the only one who recognizes that we have problems in that area that need fixing; it goes right up to 4 members of ArbCom. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment&diff=927337923&oldid=927331782 KK stated:] {{xt|But I believe this would be better addressed in a case request about discretionary sanctions, which is yet another thing we've been meaning to take a look at for a while. This would be an excellent opportunity for us to revisit the whole issue.}} Ok Ringo (who, as a kid, looked like Paul), it's your turn to beat your...drum, just the drum! [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 15:40, 12 November 2020 (UTC) [[File:Head of Chrysomelidae derivat.jpg|thumb|upright=.7|{{yo|Objective3000}} I think this is headed in the right direction.[[User talk:Deepfriedokra|DFO]]]] ::::::{{u|Atsme}}, Just so you know, there is somewhere on Wikipedia a log of AE/AN/ANI cases and it tracks subject/admins involved and political issue and how the cases were resolved. It's not just Wikipedia topics that are biased. And the bias is so pervasive that at times Wikipedia isn't fun to edit anymore. I've been here since 2005 I think and it was fun to be around. Now it's strategic editing and trying to avoid certain editors who you don't want to interact with. (and just so you know, in some areas, people won't come to your defense because they don't want to go against the groupthink, or also don't want to ruin their image.) [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] <sup>[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|<span style="color: Green;">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 00:02, 13 November 2020 (UTC) :::::::Yeah I remember that list, it was pretty controversial. Unfortunately I do not think it has been updated since early 2020. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 00:41, 13 November 2020 (UTC) ::::::::Fortunately for some, it hasn't been recently updated as it is an indictment of several conservative-minded editors. This paranoid theme that admins and editors are a cabal makes no more sense than QAnon crap. If editors that wish to push the concept that everything is a conspiracy against their belief system want to push that POV; they’re going to have drop that line and find a new path based on actual Wikipedia guidelines, reality, and good faith. I considered entering the recent AE filing a few times (something I’m not shy about) – but found no reason as Atsme was making my case against her in every edit. Coupla years ago, Drmies told her that other editors would start making a record of her hapless claims (paraphrasing). There is no deep state. There is no cabal. Just stick to the facts. I’ll finish by saying that Atsme is a far, far better editor than I and of value to the community. So long as she avoids anything remotely political. <small>And couldn't our host find a better Beatle than Ringo? Perhaps someone in the Chrysomelidae famliy?</small>[[User:Objective3000|O3000]] ([[User talk:Objective3000|talk]]) 01:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC) :::::::[https://thecritic.co.uk/the-left-wing-bias-of-wikipedia/ Report], [https://osf.io/c6dgv/ data]. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 02:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC) :::::::::{{u|Liz}}, a specific example illustrating the declining quality of Wikipedia relating to {{u|Atsme}}'s comments about unilateral DS AE actions may be when you gave me apparently false advice about my AE appeal and said that I was lucky to not be blocked. When I asked you to confirm that my appeal actually met [[WP:BANEX]], you did not respond.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Kolya_Butternut#Appeal_clarification] New editors will not be able to casually participate here under these conditions. [[User:Kolya Butternut|Kolya Butternut]] ([[User talk:Kolya Butternut|talk]]) 11:49, 13 November 2020 (UTC) *{{od}}For the sake of clarity - my concerns are not about editors who identify as conservative or liberal - I couldn't care less about one's ideology when I'm editing - it's about editors and admins who do care, take it personally and feel the need to act on it by pigeonholing their opposition as right-wing (which, btw, is a [[WP:PA]]), and then slapping a gag order on them without ever specifying a valid reason for it; a ''throw shit against the wall'' approach. I have actually defended a few of my detractors/opposition at AE when I perceived an injustice and will also be the first to lend a helping hand in RL. It's not about the politics for me, it's about the [[File:SMirC-party.svg|x20px|*<:o)]] party 🎉🎊. :I'll take it one step further...(which is what my critics hate most about me)...things have gotten to the point that some editors have even cited controlled surveys to gage intelligence levels of people who watch certain news channels, and when such a survey is conducted by academia, and aligns with their POV, it's considered a RS for statements of fact. That has to stop because it is all about IDONTLIKEIT, and the ugly hand of bias reaching out to slap GF editors who are simply copyediting, or trying to achieve NPOV. EEng got a little taste of it himself at [[Talk:Joe Biden]] but because he's openly not a fan of Trump and is known as Jesus Christ superstar,<sup>affectionately</sup> he was not nailed to the cross as I probably would have been, for Christ's sake. I believe a big part of it is prejudice based on preconceived notions that my editing is politically motivated. I have been wrongfully accused of that simply because I disagree, <sup>(or is it because of the [[Gender bias on Wikipedia|gender gap]])</sup>? Another major issue is the overuse of keyword identifiers, like the ones commonly used by so-called media bias ''experts'', in a terribly flawed process. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Joe_Biden/1&diff=964002054&oldid=963743138 WP editors] are using that same process. Certain words or "talking points" send Paul Revere galloping off to warn the village, and the troops arrive with muskets loaded!{{stretch}} :Regardless, it's simple bias that keeps certain articles scrubbed, full of trivia and noncompliant with NPOV relative to criticism. Quite frankly, it's poor editorial judgment when we have unwieldy articles filled with trivia, peacock words, and other material that fails [[WP:10YT]]. The essay or guideline supplement WP:RSP is being used improperly, and actually conflicts with WP:RS, WP:V, and WP:NPOV. And that's just for starters, so back on point - the DS-AE brigade is causing more harm than good because prejudice is the [[Lon Chaney]] of bias,<sup>an old folks analogy</sup> and what I perceive to be the motivation per The Critic that Levivich linked to above. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 16:28, 13 November 2020 (UTC) ::What does Lon Chaney mean? He's in everything? Anyway, why are administrators automatically permitted to participate in conduct disputes? It's puzzling that we're combining the duties of editorial oversight and interpersonal mediation...these aren't related skills. [[User:Kolya Butternut|Kolya Butternut]] ([[User talk:Kolya Butternut|talk]]) 18:07, 13 November 2020 (UTC) :::<small>[[Man of a Thousand Faces (film)]], [https://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/lon-chaney-the-man-of-a-thousand-faces/552/ PBS]...in other words, prejudice assumes many roles in the making of biased decisions. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 18:16, 13 November 2020 (UTC)</small> :::In my view admin are neither for conduct disputes nor for editorial oversight. The purpose of an administrator is, or rather should be, to push a button that we cannot let everyone push because the risk of abuse or misuse is too great. The buttons are "protect", "delete", and "block". An individual editor is, or rather should be, allowed to become an administrator because the community thinks they will not abuse or misuse a button; i.e., they will only push it when they are supposed to; i.e,. they will only push the button when consensus says they should push the button, ''regardless'' of their personal opinions. Admin are, or rather should be, chosen for their ability to understand and comply with consensus when it comes to the pushing of those buttons. [[WP:ACDS|Discretionary sanctions]] turns this upside down, by allowing admins to choose when to push the buttons, and to create entirely new buttons of their own. DS turned admins from being an implement of consensus to being a police officer, judge, jury, and executioner. This has been disastrous, as a small group of people (less than a dozen) have appointed themselves essentially the babysitters of entire topic areas. The conscious and unconscious biases and prejudices of this group of people, who are only human, inform their enforcement decisions, and thus determine when sanctions are imposed and when they are not, and thus determine who gets sanctioned and who doesn't, and thus determine who edits and who doesn't, and thus entire topic areas take on this small group of people's particular interpretation of NPOV, to the point that even outside observers perceive the palpable bias in our articles. ''Why'' does such a small group of people have such outsized influence? Because we let them. Editors fail to resolve problems among themselves; instead of doing the difficult work of compromise, they punt disputes to a group of self-appointed "parents"; then they complain about the parents' decisions. I think this should change, which is why I participate regularly at ANI, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. (And by extension, in RFAs, Arbcom elections, and WMF Trustee elections.) "Take the power back." [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 18:32, 13 November 2020 (UTC) ::::So... can't we just decide that "everyone who is an administrator is now a 'cleric' with the following powers:..." in order to circumvent arbitration? [[User:Kolya Butternut|Kolya Butternut]] ([[User talk:Kolya Butternut|talk]]) 19:46, 13 November 2020 (UTC) *I'm going to ping in {{U|Iridescent}} for wise observations on the above. (And I want them to know that I did make a feeble attempt to archive in preparation.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 09:26, 14 November 2020 (UTC) :*I'm not going to read through all the above gibberish; what is the actual question? If it's about a general right-v-left, that isn't a particularly useful exercise; Wikipedia is a global project, and the definitions of "right wing" and "left wing" are culture-specific. (To pick an obvious piece of low-hanging fruit, if a member of the British Conservative Party were to espouse most of the US Democratic Party platform, they'd be expelled in fairly short order as an extreme-right entryist.)&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 10:03, 14 November 2020 (UTC) :::Actually, the crux of the problem is unilateral action taken at an admin's sole discretion in the name of DS-AE, which means the action cannot be overturned by another admin. Worse yet, DS are being/have been customized to address certain behaviors of editors that have been/are being analyzed by the same few admins; therefore, unlikely to escape prejudice or their own biases and that equates into being involved. To get an AE block or t-ban removed, an editor is forced to either grovel to the enforcing admin, or endure the AE process wherein detractors have been known to cast aspersions and launch PAs with impunity - not fun, especially when it's a POV content issue and not actual disruption. There are no time limits on discussions, so the opposition who may be losing an argument can yell "BLUDGEONING" and an admin can block/t-ban the effective editor to silence them. Bias or prejudice are strong arguments for involvement, and so is patterned behavior that might also include the "study" of an editor, if not admin HOUNDING, which again speaks to "involved". How do we eliminate these problems - especially when trust is lost - keeping in mind the [[ideological bias on Wikipedia]], which is another aspect of the problem that results in disproportionate blocks & indef t-bans against those editors whose views may not align with the acting admin's views? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 15:36, 14 November 2020 (UTC) :::: ::::''(All obviously with "just my personal opinion and not in any official capacity" disclaimers.)'' I personally think discretionary sanctions are thoroughly abused, and that their use in practice is almost never justified. They were intended as a fast-track mechanism to deal with obvious cranks and obsessives and with diehard editwarriors in obvious problem areas, not as a general mechanism by which people who know how to play wiki-politics can use pseudolitigation to knock people who disagree with them out of play to allow a preferred version to stick around long enough to become the default. <p>All that said, I'm utterly unconvinced that the alleged "ideological bias of Wikipedia" exists. To me, the supposed "bias" is just a reflection of the fact that Wikipedia aggregates sources from around the world, not just from the area under discussion, and that English Wikipedia's editors break 40% US, 60% other; as such, when it comes to political topics our coverage of European and Canadian topics appears skewed to the right since we're giving due weight to American opinion, and our coverage of US topics appears skewed to the left because we're giving due weight to non-US opinion. This is particularly true when it comes to modern US political topics; it's hard to overstate how loathed the current incarnation of the US Republican Party is by even their traditional allies on the right in Europe. (Current leaders are holding their tongues publicly until he's out of office so as not to provoke diplomatic incidents, but it's fair to assume that e.g. former UK Conservative Party leader Malcolm Rifkind's on-the-record description of Trump as {{tq|"Repulsive&nbsp;… so coarse, so vulgar, so insulting to friends as well as to foes&nbsp;… I find him a really exhausting experience and one that does no benefit to his own country}} reflects what Johnson, von der Leyen, Merkel et al are saying in private.) <p>If there is a systemic bias on Wikipedia, it's not a systemic bias towards either the right or the left, but a systemic bias towards the values of industrialized societies; to paraphrase something I recently said on my talk page, if the WMF genuinely believed that the opinions of everyone in the world was of equal value than {{frac|1|3}} of each article would be dedicated to the Communist view of that topic and significant chunks of every article on any popular-culture topic would give due weight to the "sinful frivolity which will make you burn in hell" hypothesis. <p>TL;DR: When it comes to discretionary sanctions, unless it would be obvious to any reasonable outside observer that applying DS is appropriate, it almost certainly isn't. Think of them as a [[WP:PROD]] process for editors: if there's any good-faith objection it ought to go to a discussion. Alleged anti-(whatever) bias doesn't come into it and I'm not convinced such a thing exists.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 18:27, 14 November 2020 (UTC) :::::AE and DS are an example of "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em". For every complaint of DS-gone-evil, there's a counter-example of DS-finally-solved-a-problem. In one fish's opinion, GMOs are the poster child for the latter. But then again, it depends on which "side" one is on – there is no shortage of anti-GMO POV-pushers who would classify '''me''' as the "people who know how to play wiki-politics [and] can use pseudolitigation to knock people who disagree with them out of play to allow a preferred version to stick around long enough to become the default." --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:41, 14 November 2020 (UTC) ::::::I prefer living without DS/AE for the reasons I stated. I agree with Iridescent for the most part. My primary concern is relative to the rejection of significant views from our articles based on DONTLIKEIT, resulting in the purposeful omission of material, or because a particular partisan media echo chamber refused to publish it for whatever reason. After all, [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0163443719833288 a scandal] is not a scandal until it has been [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/20/when-scandal-means-nothing-how-can-the-media-hold-our-leaders-to-account published] by [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781118541555.wbiepc131 media;] a rather pompous POV, don't you think? I'm not referring to verifiable scientific information; rather, my focus is on biased news media, and how we tend to accept at face value whatever scandal clickbait media decides to publish - not to mention RECENTISM. Another problem is our limited access to RS behind paywalls (a growing problem), an issue that I've brought to {{u|Jimbo Wales|Jimbo's}} attention for a couple of years now, hoping something could be done to avoid the inevitable dilemma. Volunteers working in AfC and NPP need access to those sources for verifiability, but oh well. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9iYT3lhmd4 May the force be with you!] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 21:34, 14 November 2020 (UTC) :::::::Since you ask whether I think it's "a pompous POV" to consider something as "not a scandal" until published sources ''say'' that it's a scandal, I'll tell you what I think. Outside of Wikipedia, I suppose yes there is something rather self-congratulatory about the assumption that something isn't real until self-appointed media arbiters declare it as such. And similarly, there's something obnoxiously Warhol-esque, and/or Kardashian-West-esque, about equating fame with relevance. Long-forgotten: "I ''think'', therefore I am." :::::::But if we're talking instead about Wikipedia (which no one should confuse with the real world!), I think that we damn well better have a preponderance of reliable sources calling something "a scandal", before we call it "a scandal" in Wikipedia's voice. There's nothing pompous about ''that''; in fact, it ought to grow out of a certain humility about editor fallibility. :::::::You and I largely agree about recentism on Wikipedia. My personal way of dealing with recentism has become one of staying away from topics where it presents a risk. Someone else's problem, not mine. Your mileage may differ. :::::::But I posted the previous comment largely because I feel that this discussion is trending in one direction, and that it would benefit from some push-back. Do I think we should deprecate pay-walled sources? Absolutely not! Frankly, there is something anti-intellectual about the concept: nothing is real unless Google finds it. I still believe in libraries with paper books. :::::::I appreciate that you distinguish between verifiable scientific information and controversial public affairs. Like you, I despair of Wikipedia's ability to adequately deal with the latter. And I agree that clickbait is idiot-bait. (See: I'm repeatedly trying to identify common ground. Perhaps I'm ''very'' trying!) I've heard other editors say (I've lost track of who, sorry) that we should move away from ''characterizing'' recent events and towards just saying what happened. I like that idea. But I think there's a lot underlying "we tend to accept at face value whatever scandal clickbait media decides to publish". If the claim is that the current consensus is to present clickbait as fact, while a minority of honorable editors are being mistreated, sorry, but I don't accept it on face value. I know that's not what you want to hear from me, but we may have to agree to disagree. (As I write this, I'm hearing over the radio that "thousands" have turned out for the <s>Million Moron March</s> I mean Million MAGA March. Yes, that's still where my mind is at, at present. Keep me away from political mainspace content.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:27, 14 November 2020 (UTC) ::::::::The main difference between our perspectives is that I want the full scoop as someone who was trained in old-school journalism when neutrality, accuracy and journalistic ethics meant something unlike what we see today in some of the clickbait opinion journalism - it's day and night - whereas your perspective is more personal, particularly where politics are concerned. I'm not being critical of you, it's your perspective and I respect that, but I don't feel obligated to either share it or agree with it. I also don't harbor any ill-will toward anyone for having a different perspective from my own, but that sentiment isn't always reciprocated. I will joke about any politician at the drop of a hat, I don't care where I am or who I'm talking to, be it Trump or Biden. My Italian Momma, who could be a little crude in her forthrightness, taught me a long time ago that nobody is better than anybody else because we all have to wipe our butt after we take a dump. Talk about humbling...maybe we all need that little reminder from time to time. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 01:24, 15 November 2020 (UTC) [[File:CaramelCorn.jpg|thumb|left|upright|Be sure to get the full scoop! <small>(That's [[caramel corn]], if anyone's wondering... --Tryptofish)</small>]] :::::::::Be careful about looking for a full scoop while wiping your butt! :::::::::But seriously, it's certainly a good thing for both of us (and for anyone watching) to respect one another's perspectives even when those perspectives are not shared. You may perhaps want to consider that, whereas from your perspective you are seeking the full scoop (sorry, I can't stop smiling at that one!), other editors who have been in conflict with you (and I don't mean me here) see it as having an idiosyncratic view of what is or is not a reliable source (as Wikipedia defines reliable sources) and that you are too slow to drop the stick (drop the scooper?) when consensus goes against you. I try my level best not to consider myself to have any extra sway about neuroscience content based on my professional background, and I would suggest that your professional journalism background doesn't make your views about journalism any more valid for Wikipedia's purposes than the views of editors who are journalistic laypersons. My sincere advice, but you obviously don't have to take it. :::::::::I disagree that my perspective is more (or less) personal than anyone else's (and I think I'm entitled to say when my perspective has been characterized in a way I disagree with). Everyone who cares about public affairs has a personal perspective about it. And if people (or fish) are discussing and expressing personal political perspectives in Wikipedia user space, that's different than expressing it in mainspace or on content noticeboards. And I take '''very''' seriously my obligation to set my personal perspectives about politics aside when it's anything reader-facing. As I've now said enough times to fill up multiple scoops, I've been taking the position that editing about American Politics is someone else's problem, not mine. And just prior to my having decided that, our host EEng (this ''is'' EEng's talk page, isn't it?) will doubtless remember my taking a "let's not violate BLP over Trump" position [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Trump_Street here] (and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Trump_(dog)&diff=prev&oldid=833126689 here]). When it comes to content (and heck, even !Russian hookers), I'd say I've tried pretty hard to set the personal aside. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 01:25, 16 November 2020 (UTC) {{u|Tryptofish}}, it's not unusual to believe that about oneself or one's position - but it works both ways. You said, {{xt|''other editors who have been in conflict with you (and I don't mean me here) see it as having an idiosyncratic view of what is or is not a reliable source''}}. That's expected when the opposition has no other argument to support their position - they target, freeze, personalize & polarize (Alinsky rule #13). And if there's [[Special:Diff/847938824|no smoking gun]] to justify a case at one of the drama boards, they plant one by prepending every diff with an aspersion knowing that few, if any, admins/arbs will actually read the diffs in context, if at all. I have dared to cite PAGs that support my position whereas the opposition argues their respective opinions which typically align with the majority. Today's prevailing attitude is that left-leaning news sources are more reliable. Sorry, but I disagree with the whole RSP rating system - it is flawed. ALL news sources should be approached with caution because they all contribute to issues relative to RECENTISM & NOTNEWS. Journalists are not scholars. The alliances/loyalties that grew from some of the older news sources still remain, but now that we have the internet, more people are being exposed to the same facts but from different media perspectives. You can believe one perspective is more reliable than another but that doesn't make it so - only corroborated, verifiable facts matter. Surely we can agree that the bias on WP leans left, and that left-leaning editors are equally as aggressive as their opposition but left-leaning editors have more protection because of the sheer numbers, especially when like minded admins are editing side by side with them in a like-minded majority. [https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Stop-Carnival-Herman-Wouk/dp/0316955124 ''Don't Stop The Carnival''!] Let's say we're doing damage control and we come across the research conducted by [https://thecritic.co.uk/the-left-wing-bias-of-wikipedia/ The Critic], or we read our own [[ideological bias on Wikipedia]] and cited sources, and we are already aware of [[User talk:Atsme#Woke|''the hegemony of the asshole consensus'']], and [[WP:RSP]]. What do you think we should do when we read all the online media criticism about WP? Simply ignore it? Just today I Googled criticisms +Wikipedia, and came across [https://thegrayzone.com/2020/06/10/wikipedia-formally-censors-the-grayzone-as-regime-change-advocates-monopolize-editing/ this article], (a source I'm not familiar with), but out of curiosity I looked at RSP and confirmed that it was indeed deprecated. There was an [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 287#RfC: Grayzone|RfC]] and [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 272#On the reliability of The Grayzoneone|another brief discussion]] at [[WP:RSN]]. Soooo...what are your thoughts about it? Oh, and before I forget (a simple FYI), I also participated in that same DYK discussion that you provided diffs to above. My diffs are [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Trump_Street&diff=prev&oldid=823543360 here,] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Trump_Street&diff=prev&oldid=823706723 here,] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Trump_Street&diff=prev&oldid=823977960 here,] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Trump_Street&diff=prev&oldid=823978285 here.] [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 19:05, 21 November 2020 (UTC) :Hi Atsme. Just quickly about your last point, about the DYK discussion, yes I know that you participated there too. My reason for linking to my own participation in it was in regards to the fact that, despite my rather unambiguous personal views about Trump, when I took part in a discussion about something referring to him that would appear on the main page, I set aside my personal views and took the position that we needed to be meticulous about BLP and not imply anything about him that was unsubstantiated. :As for the rest, I really don't want to get into further discussion about it. I understand what you are saying and I'm confident that you understand what I am saying. Let's please leave it at that. Happy editing! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 20:00, 21 November 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Oh my! == [[File:150-minute almost non-stop show not enough for The Cure at Frequency Festival (7815842118).jpg|thumb|"I need a Cure"]] I get an email notice about [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKUUSntqWQ&feature=youtu.be an event] - the headline reads: <center><big><big>BIG NIGHT AT THE MUSEUM</big></big><br/>Live on YouTube!</center> What do you think was my first thought? Uh humm. I need a cure, not a curator. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.2em 0.2em,#BFFF00 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em;color:#A2006D"><small>Atsme</small></span>]] [[User talk:Atsme|💬]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 23:47, 26 October 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==David Ray Griffin== [[File:Symbol watching blue lashes high contrast.svg|25px|link=|alt=]]&nbsp;You are invited to join the discussion at [[:Talk:David Ray Griffin#Description and interests|Talk:David Ray Griffin §&nbsp;Description and interests]]. &#x0020;Thank you. [[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 03:41, 10 October 2020 (UTC){{Z48}}<!-- [[Template:Please see]] --> : You said I could notify 15. I said 14 to be equal, but I figure you're about as neutral as they come so you're the 15th. I don't expect you to say anything, but if you do I expect it to be funny. [[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 04:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC) ::If I come up with any zingers I'll be happy to share them, but don't hold your breath. There's not a lot of available raw material in 9/11 conspiracy theories. Here's a free sample: [[File:Blasting_of_a_chimney_at_the_former_Henninger_Brewery_in_Frankfurt_am_Main,_Germany.jpg|thumb|center|upright=3|"I demolish your reasoning" or "Your argument collapses"]] ::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC) ::: Thanks! But that's not a demolition, it's an office fire. [[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 05:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC) : I don't know if putting something in the archive was funny or not, but I'm laughing anyway. [[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 04:54, 10 October 2020 (UTC) ::Well it seemed a particularly un-useful post, from long ago, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to put it on the shelf. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:15, 10 October 2020 (UTC) ::: Fine by me. [[User:Roy McCoy|Roy McCoy]] ([[User talk:Roy McCoy|talk]]) 05:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == [[Malcom X#Media attention to Malcolm X over Muhammad]] or thereabouts == EEng—could take a look a the last half dozen edits at [[Malcolm X]]? I don't think I am getting through to [[User talk:Desslock97]] whom seems to be tightly focussed on inserting a Malcolm quote into an irrelevant section of the article that concerns his separation from the Nation of Islam. I've tried an edit summary on my revert plus two posts on the users talk page. The user's latest attempt adds a new subsection and text unsupported by the accompanying ref—interrupting the flow even more. Suggestions welcome—or perhaps a touch of your humor might work. — [[User:Neonorange|Neonorange]] ([[User talk:Neonorange|Phil]]) 14:14, 7 October 2020 (UTC) :Thank you for the incisive intervention. I tend to make my explanations too specific—leading to, well, you know, lawyering. — [[User:Neonorange|Neonorange]] ([[User talk:Neonorange|Phil]]) 22:34, 9 October 2020 (UTC) ::I stated on my talk page I was willing to move it to a different section or add it in some way into the article. I don't agree that it should just be outright removed, considering it has multiple credible sources (huffpost and a .edu website, both which have been used extensively in various wikipeda articles for various people) backing what he said. I don't understand what you mean by that shouldn't be added to the Malcolm X wikipedia page. What he said about media and race should absolutely be included on his wikipedia page. [[User:Desslock97|Desslock97]] ([[User talk:Desslock97|talk]]) 15:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC) :::What I think you're not getting is that just because something's sourced doesn't mean it should be in the article -- see [[WP:VNOTSUFF]]. The section of the article where you keep making the insertion does involve the media, but it's about how the media covered MX, how EM was jealous of that, and so on; MX's thoughts about the role of the media in society has nothing to do with it.{{pb}}Nor does it belong anywhere else in that particular article, which isn't an enumeration of random things MX thought or said. [[wikiquote:Malcolm_X]] would be an appropriate place to lodge this material. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:22, 11 October 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == UTP fly == Totally unrelated to anything in particular, I vaguely remember seeing a fly image on someone's user talk page once, and on mouse over, it'd move to a different spot (''that'' old gag). I thought it was called "McFly" or something like that, and it was a template, but it's not {{t|McFly}} and I can't find it now. Anybody remember what I'm talking about? [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 03:37, 8 October 2020 (UTC) :[[:User:Nagualdesign/Die Fliege]]. Gerda continues the tradition of placing it on the talkpages of editors who are missed. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 02:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC) *Pesky fly! https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mike_Pence&oldid=982600639 [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:37, 9 October 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Nice == You have been busy at the Joe article! Looks good, thanks for taking the time to take a look. [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 03:11, 21 October 2020 (UTC) :It's kind of weird actually. I've been editing for three days and until this moment no one -- ''no one'' -- seems to have noticed or reacted in any way. I mean not a single sign of life. It's like one of those sci fi movies where they board a vast, derelict spaceship and wander the empty halls. It's almost creepy. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC) ::I was wondering about that as well. When I went to post this I had to read through the last few posts here to see if I was doubling up. I am a little surprised there have not been any overblown reverts/threats. In a good way mind you! [[User:PackMecEng|PackMecEng]] ([[User talk:PackMecEng|talk]]) 03:37, 21 October 2020 (UTC) :::Yes of course -- good reverts and friendly threats. The article is so stuffed with [[WP:YOUDONTSAY]] and [[WP:CORNCOBS]] and circumlocution that if I were the suspicious type I might think it was a Republican plot to reduce voter participation by lulling the electorate ''en masse'' into a a state of stupor lasting through Election Day. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:20, 21 October 2020 (UTC) :::P.S. Look what my evil twin did the other day [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=982600639]. And do I get any recognition? NO! [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:30, 21 October 2020 (UTC) ::::It was only there for a minute. Well played, sir, well played. [[User:davidwr|davidwr]]/<small><small>([[User_talk:davidwr|talk]])/([[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]])</small></small> 13:07, 21 October 2020 (UTC) :::::{{tq|It was only there for a minute}}{{snd}}As in life. And (also as in life) he didn't even notice. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Sometimes one simply doesn't know what to say == ...and so one posts a picture. I thought you might enjoy these. Cheers, [[User:BlackcurrantTea|BlackcurrantTea]] ([[User talk:BlackcurrantTea|talk]]) 05:57, 5 March 2019 (UTC) [[File:Mysteries_of_London,_v_1_chapter_XLVI,_Markham_&_Isabella.jpg|thumb|left]][[File:Victorian_facepalm.png|thumb|center]] {{clear}} Thanks! Your contribution will be used to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=886273498] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 06:35, 5 March 2019 (UTC) :Hurrah! I'm honoured. [[User:BlackcurrantTea|BlackcurrantTea]] ([[User talk:BlackcurrantTea|talk]]) 07:51, 5 March 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == MOSNUM date ranges == Based on your edit comment when you reverted my edit, I did not realize that you made other changes. I apologize for reverting the rest of your edit. I don't understand what you mean by "please leave this near the bottom of the pile".—[[User talk:Finell|Finell]] 19:42, 8 April 2019 (UTC) :I meant that the note about word-or-dash-but-not-both belongs near the end of the list of bulletpoints, not first. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:03, 8 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==DYK for Hope Ryden== {{ivmbox |image = Updated DYK query.svg |imagesize=40px |text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions#27 May 2019|27 May 2019]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Hope Ryden]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that before she became an expert on wild animals, '''[[Hope Ryden]]''' was an international flight attendant and used her long layovers to observe wildlife in Africa and Asia?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Hope Ryden]]. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2019-05-17&end=2019-06-06&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Hope_Ryden Hope Ryden])</small>, and it may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics|the statistics page]] if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]]. }}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> &nbsp;&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 00:03, 27 May 2019 (UTC) :Actually, I just wrote the hook. It's good to see hookers getting some respect. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:18, 28 May 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==As for "generosity of spirit" ...== [[File:17-05-06-Miniaturen RR79033.jpg|thumb|upright|Tryptofish has generously brought you some spirits.]] *... don't you think we could all use more of that? [[User:Paul August|Paul August]] [[User_talk:Paul August|&#9742;]] 14:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC) :OK, EEng, you asked (at ANI: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=next&oldid=974469984]) for me to give you diffs, so here goes. Before anything else, please let me begin by saying that I'm '''not''' talking here about stuff that is particularly bad. As I said before over there, I don't see anything that you should be sanctioned for, not by a mile. So this is picky stuff, as opposed to serious complaints, because I don't have any major complaints. So none of this is going to be NPA violations or the like. And please do not feel like you have to defend any of it, because none of it is a big deal. I've been avoiding WP except for where I think I can be helpful in improving the culture of how editors communicate, and that's where this falls, plus, I'm saying all of this to you as a friend. And because I'm not trying very hard, I found these three nitpicks by just scrolling upwards on your talk page. :So, nitpick number one: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=prev&oldid=970719628]. I suspect that you were in the right. But referring to someone as "the IP with 80 edits" isn't engaging on the merits of the argument, but rather, [[WP:BITE]]. Yes, I know the IP had just elocuted "Don`t go there..it won`t you far on Wikipedia", a brilliant statement if ever there was one. But you didn't prove anything by refuting it. You once made an eightieth edit, and I once did, too. That's what "punching down" is. :Nitpick number two: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2020_April_24&curid=63750568&diff=953148983&oldid=953095365]. It looks to me, again, like you were right, and you were talking to someone who was being told repeatedly by multiple editors that they misunderstood our file policies, and who was doing some [[WP:IDHT]], albeit politely. You called what they had done "sophomoric". Yes, I know that quite a few experienced users said right here in your talk page section that it did not meet the threshold to be a PA. And that's not what I'm claiming it was. But if I say that it was ''not'' generous of you to have said it that way, I'm right about that. You aren't required to be ''generous'' in that way, and you don't need to. But you also won't be diminished by ''choosing to'' be generous that way. :Nitpick number three: [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=935621130#Proposal]. Another in your long and illustrious line of ANI illustrations. Yes, I know that you get "thanks" for them. Yes, I know that I do them all the time in user space (and I did it once at ANI, and have ever since regretted that I did). I don't know much about the editor who needed, um, [[suction (medicine)|suction]] (isn't that another section here?), but I can guess that they were less experienced than you and I are. I wish that you would just stop with those ANI illustrations, entirely. :In ''none'' of these instances were you in the wrong. You don't ''have'' to do anything I tell you to do here. And, given that it's just a website anyway, it's no big deal. If you want, you can choose to be generous. Or not. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:15, 23 August 2020 (UTC) {{clear}} ::Just glancing over this I can see it will be an interesting exercise. I suppose I have an unconscious flowchart for response modes, depending on the history of the issue, the other user(s)' history and behavior, the goal, and so on, and it will be fun to try to explicate that using these cases, and (who knows?) maybe modify it. However, it won't be fast. I didn't get much sleep last night because my lumbago was acting up{{refn|I actually don't know what lumbago is but it sounds like a good excuse.}} and for the next two weeks I'll be supervising a construction project in my building. Somewhere in there I'll get started, but not today and not tomorrow. Maybe I'll add some cases of my own. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 21:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC) {{reflist-talk}} :::By all means, sleep on it. And really, it doesn't require any sort of response at all. Certainly not worth an extended discussion. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 23:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC) *COVID-19 made him do it 👿...not directly, but the lockdown has its affects...not unlike cabin fever and it can be worse than alcohol. At least with alcohol, you pass out when you've had too much...but with cabin fever, you get worse and more active over time. The only cure is for Tryptofish to come back to WP, and for EEng to regenerate our round table discussions so he can yell at the kids and tell them to get out of his yard. That will help release some of the pressure cooker frustration he feels and makes it easier to measure one's comments when faced with WP editors who just don't get it. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 13:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC) *:And here's the difference: Someone without generosity of spirit would point out that you should have said "effects", but someone with generosity wouldn't. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 19:56, 24 August 2020 (UTC) *::Hmmmm. And so here we come to the crux of the matter. To me, generosity of spirit would be to have the respect for my visitor to assume ''(option 1)'' that she would appreciate help with getting ''affect'' versus ''effect'' straight, or (if it's just a momentary lapse) that she will get a chuckle out of a little joke I might make exploiting the fact that ''affect'' can in fact be a noun; and indeed if you weren't such a {{tq|shitty prof}}{{refn|Anagram of ''Tryptofish''}}{{fbdb}} you'd know that a laugh, like almost any form of emotion, helps a lesson sink in. (Fear works too but is harder to induce remotely than it is in the classroom. And the dean has reminded me several times that love is off limits.) An ''ungenerous'' spirit would assume ''(option 2)'' that Atsme's got a fragile, easily-bruised ego which asks nothing more than to be allowed to spend a lifetime floating in a warm bath of blissful ignorance. Let's ask {{u|Atsme}} which one she is: Option 1 or Option 2. (And please be serious, Atsme. This is actually an important conversation.) [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 20:58, 24 August 2020 (UTC) *:::COVID-19 lockdown made me do it...or better yet, it was a <s>conservation</s> conversation starter. Whatever, it affected me profoundly; but nowhere near the way it effected EEng. Now...back to your question, surely you know I'd go with Option 1. I'm the Timex that ''takes a licking and keeps on ticking!'' ^{Uhm, carry that ball to the finish line carefully. (That didn't help, did it?)} [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC) *::::Actually, I think that what we have here is an example of how online text humor can be misunderstood. My ''intention'' when I wrote that was to make a joke: I was (apparently) implying that it would be kinder ''not'' to point out the error – and yet, I was pointing it out. [[Iron|Irony]]. Now, maybe EEng is calling my bluff, by pretending that he thinks I actually meant what I said, and if so, well played, my little EEng.{{refn|Anagram of ''EEng''}} *::::But as for good teaching techniques, I was always an enthusiastic practitioner of humor during classes. (When lecturing about [[opioids]], I've been known to imitate a woman having an orgasm.) But – and I have a very big butt – jokes made ''at a student's expense'' are most definitely ''not'' helpful to learning. Indeed, quite the opposite. Your dean should have told you that. But of course, university administrators are generally nitwits. At least the ones who have any wits at all. *::::And, since this is an important conversation, that does translate to Wikipedia. Making a joke at the expense of another editor (unless you know that it's someone like Atsme, who will get the joke) can be a rather ungenerous thing to do. (If you've never seen an undergraduate who is furious because they think that you were talking down to them, you are lucky you missed it. Even if you meant well.) --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC) *::::Oh, and I hope your [[plumbago|lumbago]] gets better! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:34, 24 August 2020 (UTC) {{reflist-talk}} *Not Atsme, but I'll give an honest answer. I don't mind good-natured pointing out of errors or even good-natured ridicule for errors from someone I believe basically likes and respects me. I don't like seeing people being intentionally hurtful to people they disagree with. I didn't like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Talk_page_guidelines&type=revision&diff=945911420&oldid=945909847&diffmode=source this] but I also didn't like seeing [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Talk_page_guidelines&diff=prev&oldid=945959364&diffmode=source this] (third one of many). Both felt unnecessarily mean. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 22:29, 24 August 2020 (UTC) *:For the record (and for those too lazy to click), of the two diffs you just gave only the second is by me. As to that one, I believe you're talking about {{collapse top|title=Oops, I got the wrong part of the diff}} ::: where Editor A said''most editors spend a lot of time on Wikipedia doing something that is of little benefit to themselves'' ::and I said :::''Change {{tq|"little benefit to themselves}} to simply {{tq|little benefit}} and the point is well made.'' ::{{ndash}} yes? But that wasn't directed at, or any kind of comment on, Editor A, or even on editors in general (though I can see how it could be misread as that latter, and that's my fault{{snd}}I myself had to think for a second to reconstruct what I was saying). It was simply a statement that the procedure under discussion is so complex, yet of so little benefit, that only if editors see their work here as useless in general would they bother doing this ''particular'' useless thing. So there's nothing mean about it. {{collapse bottom}} ::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC) :::Yes, only the second diff is by you, but no, that wasn't the one I didn't love. It was actually a defense of/kind word to me in response to the first diff, by another editor. The thing I objected to was "Don't worry about it, {{U|Valereee}}. The singular of "[[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/deleted#Oppose|admin who barely squeaked through RfA]]" is not "editor whose opinion anyone pays attention to"" :::To be clear, I sincerely appreciated the defense/kind word. One of the really helpful things men (I don't think I'm assuming) here on WP can do is object to women being pummeled by other men about some stereotyped issue like women being inept at technical things. Not that I'm not that, but it's not because I don't have a penis. It's because YAWN. So I appreciated you coming to my defense. I just didn't like that it was done by making a comment about how difficult that RfA had been. [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 00:01, 25 August 2020 (UTC) ::::::For anyone having a hard time following, click the second diff and just search on FUCKING UPSETTING [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 00:13, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::I'm sorry to hear you don't have a penis, val, but if you need one, there are websites that can help you find one in your local area. E may have a recommendation. {{awesome}} {{pb}} I also thought that RFA line violated the below-the-belt and glass-houses rules, a rare yellow card. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 00:15, 25 August 2020 (UTC) ::::::I appreciate the acknowledgement about the RfA line. But the sarcasm about supposed penis envy is appalling, sexist, and stupid. Not funny. Valereee, I'm sorry that you were replied to that way. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 15:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::::{{U|Valereee}} can express herself on this if need be. These days there's entirely too much of people imputing hurt feelings to other people. Jesus Christ on a crutch. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:47, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::::{{u|Tryptofish}}, I took it as a joke. I didn't read sarcasm or penis envy into it. (In fact I searched the page to see if I'd missed something else. This page has the word penis on it seven times. Now nine.) [[User:Valereee|—valereee]] ([[User talk:Valereee|talk]]) 20:32, 25 August 2020 (UTC) ::::::::Valereee, thanks, I'm glad that you feel that way. As to the celibate saint on a crutch, regardless of whether or not valereee was offended by it – and I'm glad that she wasn't – I was offended by it, myself. And I still am. I think I have a reasonably good sense of humor. If it was a joke, it wasn't funny, and I'm not the problem here. So if your (EEng's) reaction is to be offended by what I said, as opposed to what I reacted to, then that's the problem. If there is any take-home from this discussion, it's that humor does not always make for a positive contribution to a discussion. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:06, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::::::Last year you went to bat for an editor who told another editor to go fuck himself with a dildo covered in sandpaper and hot sauce (among other colorful statements), and when the community told you to drop that particular stick, you retired. (Not your current retirement; this was a previous one.) A few days ago you were joking with the rest of us about a child performing oral sex on a priest. When you say you're offended by my joke, you are being completely and totally insincere. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 21:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::::::::FTR I didn't interpret it as a child. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:24, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::::::::FTR, neither did I. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#294;">Girth</span><span style="font-family:Impact;color:#42c;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:script;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 13:22, 26 August 2020 (UTC) ::::::::::Actually, you have my prior history wrong on some of those points. But there is a difference here, between those earlier jokes and this one, and it's a pity that what I've been trying to say, very sincerely, isn't getting across. What MPants said was directed at a drive-by IP troll who was spouting Nazi sympathies, and I trust that that would not describe an established female editor. And the Saint John sculpture joking was not directed at ''any'' editor (unless that <s>child</s> ''kneeling person'' is an editor here). Yes, I have a sense of humor. But humor varies, depending on the target. And you completely and totally do not seem to understand the distinction. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:03, 25 August 2020 (UTC) <small>Revised. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)</small> :::::::::::This is my talk page and I forbid either of you from continuing this branch of the conversation. If you two fell out I don't know what I would do. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:15, 25 August 2020 (UTC) ::::::::::::Agreed, thank you. But getting back on topic, I really do hope you will give serious thought to what I said about the targets of humor. Again, I'm not accusing you of anything there, but just passing along what I hope will be useful advice, going forward. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 22:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC) ::::I realize I shouldn't have done it with a lady present, but I feel OK with that being my response to Editor A's {{tq|Not everybody is as inept as you, and the plural of "anecdote" is not "data"}} (which particularly got my goat because, in fact, [http://blog.danwin.com/don-t-forget-the-plural-of-anecdote-is-data/ the plural of ''anecdote'' actually <u>is</u> ''data'']). I felt it was a effective reminder of his responsibility to comport himself in a manner befitting an admin; if you want to hear that I regret it maybe a bit, that's true. I'm not a fucking saint. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::::EEng, that's really all that I would ask for. Thank you for that. I mean it. Even if you were a celibate saint. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 15:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC) ::::Gosh, completely forgot about [[User talk:EEng#re]]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC) :::::Reading this talk page from that point forward is illustrative: :::::*[[User talk:EEng#re]] (which I believe was during pandemic shutdown week in the US) was followed by: :::::*[[User talk:EEng#Ok, so I just learned that the media doesn't like "Chinese coronavirus"?]] - An example of humor, even "punching down" humor, relieving stress and strengthening a community :::::*[[User talk:EEng#A reminder]] - Ditto, but punching up :::::*[[User talk:EEng#Warning]] - A bullshit warning of the kind E often gets, responded-to with an "IP-with-six-edits" comment, then humor being used to <del>[[WP:Diffusing conflict|diffuse]]</del> defuse conflict. :::::*[[User talk:EEng#Double palindrome Burma-Shave haiku]] - The most amazing bit of wordplay that nobody but Atsme noticed :::::My point? Atsme is the only one who appreciates fine poetry. And humor is useful. But then I have a whole thing on my userpage about that, so I'm rather biased on the subject. [[User:Levivich|Le]][[Special:Contribs/Levivich|v!v]][[User talk:Levivich|ich]] 04:26, 25 August 2020 (UTC) *I think that a bit of a [[false dichotomy]] is being created here. Are we being offered the choice of self-classifying ourselves into exactly one of two categories, one being self-important people who openly prize ignorance, and the other being people who grant advance license to being teased over immaterial typographical errors, even where this might distract from substantive discussions? If that choice were posed to me, my response would be ''[[mu (negative)|mu]]'', in the sense popularized by Douglas Hofstadter in ''Gődel, Escher, Bach''. I understand the point that EEng is making, but I'm not sure that he is making it affectively. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] ([[User talk:Newyorkbrad|talk]]) 02:43, 25 August 2020 (UTC) *:*Dichotomy hyperbole obviously. *:*Not a day goes by that each of doesn't see at least one talk post that distracts from substantive discussion by its unintelligibility, vacuousness, or whatever. By comparison, a little joke at least has some redeeming qualities, for those who choose to let it. *:*I'll forgo further affect/effect quips. *:[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC) *::Uh huh...I figured you would. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 03:52, 25 August 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Stella Immanuel == I've placed the nomination on hold. Please ping me at the DYK nomination once the merge discussion has been closed, and I'll restore the tick. Should be a brief wait since there appears to be consensus against the merge. [[User:The Squirrel Conspiracy|The Squirrel Conspiracy]] ([[User talk:The Squirrel Conspiracy|talk]]) 22:29, 11 August 2020 (UTC) {{Clear}} == 2019 == <div style="margin: auto; max-width: 32em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba( 192, 192, 192, 0.75 ); border-radius: 1em; border: 1px solid #a7d7f9; margin-bottom: 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em 1em; color: black;" class="ui-helper-clearfix"> {{User QAIbox | title = | image = Bachsaal Schloss Koethen.jpg | image_upright = 0.75 | bold = | normal = }} <center> <br />'''Die Zeit, die Tag und Jahre macht''' <big>[[User:Gerda Arendt/Christmas 2018|Happy 2019]]</big> [[Wikipedia:Main Page history/2019 January 1|begin it with music and memories]]<br /><br /> </center></div> Not too late, I hope ;) --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 13:44, 13 January 2019 (UTC) *Well, I did spend two full sessions with my psychiatrist dealing with the fear that you'd abandoned me. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:00, 13 January 2019 (UTC) *: ... did they find that part of is the reluctance to have to wait for an edit here to be saved? --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 14:29, 13 January 2019 (UTC) *::That would be a lack of patients, which could be quite a problem for EEng's shrink. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 15:51, 13 January 2019 (UTC) *:::He's an imaginary shrink, so he's got all the time in the world. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:26, 13 January 2019 (UTC) *::::So if someone thinks that they see a psychiatrist who isn't really there, does that mean that they actually need a psychiatrist? --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 18:44, 13 January 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == [[Draft:Dumber than a rock in the toothpick factory]] == [[File:Holzzahnstocher.jpg|thumb|upright=0.5|No rocks here!]] This just blew in on the [[CAT:CSD|slush pile]] and I thought it would raise a smile if I reposted it here. {{xt|'''''"Dumber than a rock in a toothpick Factory"''''' ie; this is a phrase that was created by myself for saying that someone is unintelligent; not smart; uneducated. this phrase can be used as an insult or a derogatory remark. Use this saying with caution as it will offend and hurt feelings. In fact it could even cause lasting pain an turmoil if not used with extreme caution. But if used in good company this could cause laughter and hilarity and may even cause a peeing incident.}} [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 18:56, 8 March 2019 (UTC) :Sorry, but peeing incidents are unacceptable, unless...by design. I have also concluded that EEng's TP may well be the only true "safe place" to say what one thinks, depending on one's perspective, of course. ^{[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]]} <big>[[User talk:Atsme |👂🏻]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</big> 19:03, 8 March 2019 (UTC) ::I don't understand the rock-toothpick imagery. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 19:17, 8 March 2019 (UTC) :::I'm also a bit confused by that imagery. In fact, isn't that draft a bit like the opposite of that old saying: [[Sticks and Stones|"''sticks'' and ''stones'' may break my bones, but ''words will never hurt me''"]]? [[User:SemiHypercube|<b style="color:#090">Semi</b>]][[User talk:SemiHypercube|<i style="color:#099">Hyper</i>]][[Special:Contributions/SemiHypercube|<u style="color:#009">cube</u>]] 15:50, 9 March 2019 (UTC) :I think it's supposed to say ''Denser'' than a rock in the toothpick factory. The idea being that the density of a rock would stand out against a group of toothpicks in uniform density. In which case it should be "relatively denser". Or perhaps it just sounds silly, and trying to get a discussion out of it here is dumber than a rock in the toothpick factory. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 10:18, 10 March 2019 (UTC) [[File:Sterling Manufacturing Co., Limited (3093706934).jpg|thumb|Hapless nominator: "Oh no!! What have you done to Grandma?!!"<br>Gleeful closer: "That's the last time she runs for RfA!!"]] ::Personally I would have gone with "blunter than a rock in the toothpick factory". But then folks have often said that I'm "one slab short of a full patio." [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 10:24, 10 March 2019 (UTC) :::Not sure how to get this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h4h6xpg40#2:18 video] to open at 2:18. [[File:SMirC-chuckle.svg|x20px|^_^]] ^{[[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme</span>]]} <big>[[User talk:Atsme |📣]] [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]]</big> 16:32, 10 March 2019 (UTC) *Going to the other end of the spectrum, let's start a "vivid folksy imagery" contest. Here's my favorite: *:{{tq|There hasn't been so much excitement around here since grandma got her tit caught in the wringer!}} :[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 16:43, 10 March 2019 (UTC) ::I thought that was [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRWFP1siM0 Auntie Mabel]? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 00:23, 12 March 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == [[Milman Parry]] == ::''The following continues a conversation begun at [[User talk:AndrewFeld]]:'' If my grandfather had killed himself, that wouldn't bother me in the least. He died 25 years before I was born. I couldn't care less if he died by autoerotic asphyxiation, Russian roulette, eating Tide pods, falling off a cliff while taking a selfie, or by shooting himself in the heart. What bothers me is that after many years of speaking with people who knew Milman Parry, including Albert Lord, I have been told repeatedly that a) no one who knew him considered suicide a possibility b) there is no evidence that he killed himself (no note, etc.) and c) the basis for the theories about his suicide (that he had been denied promotion at Harvard) have been disproved. I assumed that in editing a Wikipedia page, it was important to remove unfounded speculation and errors. Perhaps I was wrong. Although I do wonder at your need to keep this rumor alive. Perhaps you're just generally pro-gossip? Oh--and I'm sorry that your section leader in Albert's class was an idiot. You should have told Lord at the time. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:AndrewFeld|AndrewFeld]] ([[User talk:AndrewFeld#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AndrewFeld|contribs]]) 00:13, 17 March 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> :You're right that Wikipedia strives to avoid unfounded speculation and errors, but what we count as ''founded'' is tied to what reliable sources tell us. As you implicitly acknowledge, the idea that Milman Parry may have killed himself is a common one, and since there are sources mentioning the possibility the article cannot simply ignore it.{{pb}}Of course I would very much like to see the treatment of this point improved, but that can only happen if we have more sources, and I haven't been able to find any on my own. Your personal knowledge we can't use, unfortunately{{snd}}I'm sure you understand. But I'll tell you what, I'll contact some classicists I know to see if they can point me to something. If you know of any sources, please do say. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 01:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC) ::Hi. A biography of Milman Parry is currently in the works, by Robert Kanigel, and an article about his death, by Steven Reece, will be published in the journal, Oral Tradition, this Spring, so there will soon be a great deal of new information available about Milman Parry's life, and his death. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:AndrewFeld|AndrewFeld]] ([[User talk:AndrewFeld#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/AndrewFeld|contribs]]) 01:41, 17 March 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> :::Well why didn't you say so? I'm sure those new sources will allow us to give this point the high-quality treatment it deserves. So I can attend to that as soon as possible, please drop me a message here the moment either source becomes available. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 02:10, 17 March 2019 (UTC) *Followup: I'm glad to say that the new sources have made it possible to give a well-founded, comprehensive presentation [https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=1005615654#Death_and_commemoration]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color:red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color:blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:31, 3 March 2021 (UTC) {{Clear}} == A link == Morning - I was hoping you'd remember a link you posted a while back to a YouTube video showing a group of scholars talking about creating an encyclopedia. I started scrolling your UTP from the rock-toothback discussion back to discussions in Dec 2018 and didn't see it. Perhaps it was in the museum? [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 13:47, 30 June 2019 (UTC) :[https://en.wikipedia.org/?oldid=904039788#Some_Entertaining_Diversions]. And to think they say I'm disorganized. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 14:10, 30 June 2019 (UTC) ::<small>(And that's about the kindest thing they say... lol.) Harvard graduates... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w know your limits]! [[User:Martinevans123|Martinevans123]] ([[User talk:Martinevans123|talk]]) 21:09, 30 June 2019 (UTC) </small> :::Call T&S! Martin is harassing EEng and me! --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:11, 30 June 2019 (UTC) :::For those who don't know, Harvard graduates are a [[Mental Health (Discrimination) Act 2013|protected group against discrimination]]. --[[User:Tryptofish|Tryptofish]] ([[User talk:Tryptofish|talk]]) 21:23, 30 June 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == '''"...merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." --Thomas Jefferson''' == I could not help<span style="color:#0645AD">^{<nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Citation (horse)|Citation]] [[Need, California|Need]][[ed (text editor)|ed]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>}</span> noticing that your so-called "User Page"[https://www.zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters/] mentions a "Cabal".[http://www.guymacon.com/flame.html] There Is No Cabal (TINC). We discussed this at the last Cabal meeting, and everyone agreed that There Is No Cabal. An announcement was made in ''Cabalist: The Official Newsletter of The Cabal'' making it clear that There Is No Cabal. The words "There Is No Cabal" are in ten-foot letters on the side of the 42-story International Cabal Headquarters, and an announcement that There Is No Cabal is shown at the start of every program on The Cabal Network. If that doesn't convince people that There Is No Cabal, I don't know what will. BTW, here is the source for the Jefferson quote above:[https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/98-01-02-4882] --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 03:58, 20 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Thank you == Those are now ''much'' improved. To be honest, I'm slightly annoyed at how quickly you were able to improve them, and by how much, but I'll take solace in taking full credit. Re the lawyer one: I think it's a good punchline, but the set-up feels contrived. The idea is the lawyer keeps "appealing" until he gets to the constitution, which he edits. Maybe he should go to different courts? Maybe it should start with the jury being polled and "not a vote"? Maybe the whole joke should be much shorter? <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 03:02, 22 April 2019 (UTC) :Well I wasn't planning to get into it, but since we're here I'll tell you what I think needs doing in that joke, though it's not a coherent plan. A successful joke must incorporate some kind of incongruity in the punchline, usually (though not universally) in the form of a reversal or change of point of view. This is partly why jokes so often have three parts: two set a pattern, direction, or point of view, and the third breaks the pattern or reverses the direction. (The desert island / raft joke breaks the "3" mold, but that's OK because part of the joke is the tedious multiple chances we give vandals.) Now I think the right thing to do in the lawyer joke might be to have the ''judge'' do all the citing of shortcuts (to set the pattern) and then at the end the lawyer rewrites the book or something and invokes ANYONECANEDIT, thus turning the tables. I don't have the details worked out, and honestly it's a tricky story to sustain unless the ripostes are truly bang-on to the various shortcuts that get cited, but I think that's the right framework. Having said that, the opening call by the lawyer to REVERT the verdict is the best line of the joke, and I don't see offhand how to put that into the mouth of the judge. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:31, 22 April 2019 (UTC) ::What if they both cite shortcuts. What do you think of this, quick and dirty: ::Jury: Guilty ::Lawyer: [[WP:Revert]] ::Judge: [[WP:0RR]], the jury is sending your client to jail ::Lawyer: [[WP:Move review]] ::Judge: affirms [[WP:Consensus]] ::Lawyer: (Notavote? IAR?) ::Judge: [[WP:PAG]]s ::Lawyer: {{t|citation needed}} ::Judge: shows him the book ::Lawyer: [[WP:ANYONECANEDIT]] :: ::Alternate ending: the ''defendant'' edits the book and cites ANYONECANEDIT <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 20:38, 22 April 2019 (UTC) Well, that has possibilities, because half of essays and PAGs have a corresponding essay or PAG that tends to say the opposite. They're not all coming to mind though. Here's something: :Jury: The result of the discussion was '''delete'''. <small>('''Jailify'''? <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span>)</small> :Lawyer: Poll the jury? :Judge: WP:NOTAVOTE :Lawyer: Rv? :Judge: 0RR :Lawyer: DRV? :Judge: FORUMSHOPPING :Lawyer: IAR? <small>(CONSENSUSCANCHANGE? <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span>)</small> :Judge: DROPTHESTICK :Lawyer: [...something...] :Judge: [...something...] :Lawyer: [...something about editing a PAG...] [[WP:ANYONECANEDIT]] :Defendant: <bolting for the door> [[WP:Wikipedia does not need me]] [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 22:32, 22 April 2019 (UTC) ::I like it! Some suggestions above and also: [[WP:TTR]]/[[WP:DTTR]], [[WP:NORUSH]]/[[WP:NOW]], [[WP:SPADE]]/[[WP:NOSPADE]] <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 00:41, 23 April 2019 (UTC) :::I like jailify. You take it from here. Let me know when you're ready for me to look again. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 00:47, 23 April 2019 (UTC) "Has the jury reached a verdict?" the judge asks.<br/> "Yes, your honor," the jury fore<del>man</del>person replies. "The result of the discussion was '''jailify'''."<br/> The wikilawyer jumped from his chair. "[[WP:NOTAVOTE|NOTAVOTE]]!" The judge shakes her head, "[[WP:CONSENSUS|CONSENSUS]] has been reached."<br/> "[[WP:REVERT|REVERT]]!" exclaims the wikilawyer. The judge shakes her head, "[[WP:0RR|0RR]]."<br/> "[[WP:DRV|DRV]]!" the wikilawyer demands. The judge shakes her head, "No [[WP:FORUMSHOPPING|FORUMSHOPPING]]."<br/> "There is [[WP:NORUSH|NORUSH]]!" argues the wikilawyer. The judge shakes her head, "The deadline is [[WP:NOW|NOW]]."<br/> "[[WP:DTTR|DTTR]]!" the wikilawyer asserts. The judge shakes her head, "[[WP:TTR|TTR]]."<br/> "[[WP:NOSPADE|NOSPADE]]!" pleads the wikilawyer. The judge shakes her head, "[[WP:SPADE|SPADE]]."<br/> "[[WP:IAR|IAR]]!" the wikilawyer shouts. The judge shakes her head, "[[WP:DROPTHESTICK|DROPTHESTICK]]."<br/> "[[WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY|NOTBUREAUCRACY]]!" retorts the wikilawyer. The judge shakes her head and points to a book on her desk, "[[WP:PAG|PAG]]s."<br/> The wikilawyer grabs the book and tears out all the pages. "[[WP:ANYONECANEDIT|ANYONECANEDIT]]!" he cackles.<br/> "[[WP:BLOCK|BLOCK]]!" orders the judge. The court officers to take the wikilawyer into custody.<br/> Seeing the officers occupied, the defendant bolts for the door, yelling, "[[WP:Wikipedia does not need me]]!" <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 02:27, 26 April 2019 (UTC) :Pretty good, {{U|Levivich}}. I think you've pulled it off for this month. But in the future I think it's a bad idea to commit in advance to producing a humor column. I'd suggest making it an "occasional feature", so that when it's ready it's ready. I must say I admire your ability to produce stuff on deadline. I certainly can't do that. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 03:37, 26 April 2019 (UTC) ::"...if you display any knowledge of our products we'll fire you" made me LOL. Thanks! Do you think you could like, you know... check my contribs every day and just follow behind me and improve everything I do? Can I send you some work emails to look at before I send them out? <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 20:44, 26 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == coach == Re [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Concord_coach&diff=893414805&oldid=893413957] - [https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/e17d80a8-01a9-44c0-b6d0-125d1489c6d0]. -- [[User:Netoholic|Netoholic]] [[User talk:Netoholic|@]] 10:28, 21 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Good sir, this has gone too far == [https://i.imgur.com/XfiCPTn.png Talk about "distorted"]. <span style="font-family:serif">[[User:Eman235#top|<span style="color:green;">E'''man'''</span>]][[Special:Contribs/Eman235|<span style="color:#6643d1;">2'''35'''</span>]]/[[User talk:Eman235#top|<span style="color:brown;">''talk''</span>]]</span> 11:05, 22 April 2019 (UTC) :''[http://heavytable.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/tilt-machines-pinball.jpg TILT!]'' [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 15:26, 22 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Some gravestones for you! == [[File:William French grave died saving a drowning dog.JPG|thumb|left|upright=0.8]] [[File:CoL Cemetery – 20180515 140909 (42127610681).jpg|thumb|right|upright=0.8]] Seeing as [[:File:Abney Park – 20180710 110251 (42600535824).jpg|the world's most petulant grave]] sparked off an almighty thread about sewer lions, have a couple more oddities I found while transferring assorted clutter to Commons from the smouldering wreckage of Flickr. Zoom in to read the inscriptions.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 17:21, 24 April 2019 (UTC) [[File:Acton Cemetery – 20170719 123818 001 (33760624148).jpg|thumb|center|upright=0.8]] *Your contribution has been [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=893960673 duly entered in the Great Register]. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:52, 24 April 2019 (UTC) *A complaint about that M2HSS section (well, aside from the one about your support for that crank who demanded it be retitled away from "list of…" because it needed a standalone article and then never bothered to actually write said article, so we're now left with an "article" that has no text whatsoever other than the existing brief summary of the parent article); {{tq|the quaint identification of the actors' stations in life}} wasn't some kind of quaint Victorian snobbery, but was done very explicitly by Watts to make it clear that people from all walks of life were equally capable of doing good deeds—a very radical sentiment for the time, when the two main schools of thought were one-nation toryism ("well-educated people have a duty to do great deeds, because the great unwashed are too stupid to do them for themselves") or proto-socialism ("the rich are all crooked and in it for themselves or they wouldn't be rich, so only the poor are capable of decency"). I do keep meaning to get around to doing Watts's biography—he was a fascinating character who pretty much invented radical chic a century early, as well as the guy who Barack Obama cites as his reason for entering politics (all that "Hope" stuff was explicitly a reference to [[Hope (painting)|''Hope'' (painting)]], even if hardly anyone got the reference)—but that's another of those articles that's in such a poor state it would need a complete nuke-and-rewrite and consequently treading on multiple toes.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 16:14, 25 April 2019 (UTC) :I'm afraid I've never been a fan of the article{{ndash}}list distinction anyway, but I will eagerly support you in whatever reform you propose on that score. If you need any help getting obscure sources on Watts (there certainly are a lot) let me know. {{pb}}I did not know about ''Hope'' -- interesting. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:05, 25 April 2019 (UTC) :: ::I have a lot more stacked up to do before I even consider Watts (although I may do some of the more interesting paintings; at the moment we have an odd situation where ''Hope'', ''[[Mammon (painting)|Mammon]]'' and ''[[After the Deluge (painting)|After the Deluge]]'' are at FA quality and everything else is a redlink). If I go back to doing biographies (I don't really like writing them) [[Zachariah Pearson]] and [[Albert Joseph Moore]], two Victorian chancers who deserve better coverage than their current atrocious articles, will probably be next. :: ::It's not the article/list distinction that's the issue; it's the fact that the list was intentionally on a subpage so people wanting to read about it would be directed to [[Postman's Park|the page that actually has the story of the monument on it]] (the histories of the park and the memorial are inseparable, as the former was created to accommodate the latter), but because the redirect has been deleted and the list moved over it, anyone searching for the memorial ([https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Memorial_to_Heroic_Self-Sacrifice thanks to ''Closer'' there's a slow but steady stream]) now lands directly on the list subpage and assumes that Wikipedia doesn't have anything to say about the topic.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 17:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC) :::Well I'm always ready to help. I can get [http://hollis.harvard.edu just about anything] with no trouble. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:48, 25 April 2019 (UTC) ::::I'll see your [http://hollis.harvard.edu almost everything] and raise you [https://www.bl.uk/ everything], with [https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/guildhall-library/Pages/default.aspx a backstop] for those oddities that don't make it into copyright libraries. The South East may be filthy, overcrowded and eye-poppingly expensive, but it has certain advantages.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 17:59, 25 April 2019 (UTC) ::::::Meanwhile I have to rely on ''Nationallizenzen'' and [[Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library]] as I seldom get time to go in a library and the topics I write about are usually better covered in academic journals. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 18:02, 25 April 2019 (UTC) :::::::{{U|Jo-Jo Eumerus}}, my offer extends to you too. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 23:08, 25 April 2019 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks. Maybe I'll ask for something in the future. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 06:23, 26 April 2019 (UTC) :::::::::Well please don't ask in the past. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 12:15, 26 April 2019 (UTC) :::::Well I visualized this not as a competition, but rather a teaming of complementary collections (British and American). Since I'm at Harvard several times a week it's especially convenient for me, and their stacks are open so I can skim unlimited numbers books and journals for relevant material. Two other points: I wonder if your relationship with BL gives you online access to all their journals, as I have through Harvard (e.g. [https://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=894138878]); and (and it really pains me to say this) I spent a substantial amount of time at BL some time ago and was [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMIyDf3gBoY shocked -- ''SHOCKED!''] at the really low quality of the research staff there. I mean astounded. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 18:23, 25 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==Redirect== [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 April 27#Uncontrollable_shitting]] - I think it should be redirected to [[potty mouth]]. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 10:47, 4 May 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Russians, I tell you! == Your Highness may want to lend an amused eye to [[Talk:Timeline of Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections#Disputed pre-2015 content, by theme]], wherein your humble worshipper attempts to argue that the [[fall of the Soviet Union]] in 1991 was ''not'' an obvious precursor to Donald Trump's election in 2016. Neither was Trump's heroic attempt to sell [[Trump Vodka|American vodka]] to Russians. Oh the humanity! — [[User:JFG|JFG]] ^{[[User talk:JFG|talk]]} 03:17, 5 May 2019 (UTC) :I try to stay out of American politics articles because sooner or later someone will drag in my talk page and there will be gnashing of teeth and tearing out of hair. But I think I saw my notes on ''useful idiot'' the other day. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:15, 5 May 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Image == Hope you don't mind, but I removed the porta potty image from the ANI thread with my name in it. I don't feel it's fair for the thread which is about me to have this image in it, and could have an effect of subtly serving to portray me in a negative manner. Hope you understand. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]^{[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<span style="font-size: x-small;">1000</span>]]}</span> 09:57, 4 April 2019 (UTC) :Oversensitive. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 10:10, 4 April 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} ==Your help needed== [[File:West Ham Cemetery 20190505 105514 (32834789477).jpg|right|thumb|upright=0.5]] This pioneering attempt at a wooden gravestone dating from the early 1970s reminds me of something, but I can't put my finger on what it is. Are you able to help?&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 15:26, 5 May 2019 (UTC) :[[Penis]] or [[mushroom]], IMO. [[User:Jo-Jo Eumerus|Jo-Jo Eumerus]] ([[User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus|talk]], [[Special:CentralAuth/Jo-Jo Eumerus|contributions]]) 16:12, 5 May 2019 (UTC) ::I get asked that regularly.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 16:42, 5 May 2019 (UTC) :::So does Trump. From what Arid Desiccant says, the last erection was in the 1970s so there's a parallel there as well. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 17:35, 5 May 2019 (UTC) [[File:Abney Park – 20190507 115930 (40829473543).jpg|right|thumb|upright|The Victorians didn't pull their punches]] *While we're on the subject, have the world's least sentimental gravestone.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 15:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC) ::"In loving memory of GEORGE HARRISON who died in great agony ... aged 5 1/2 years ... Also SARAH HARRISON grandma of the above who died after long suffering ..." YIKES!{{pb}}I saw a very touching marker the other day in [[St. Paul's Chapel]], NYC: :::''Beneath the Altar of this Church are deposited the Remains of Mrs ELIZABETH FRANKLIN, Wife of His Excellency WILLIAM FRANKLIN Esq: late Governor under His Brittanick Majesty, of the Province of New Jersey.{{pb}}Compelled, by the adverse circumstances of the Times, to depart from the Husband she loved, and at length deprived of the soothing hope of his speedy Return, she sunk under accumulated Distresses and departed this Life on the on 28th Day of July 1778, in the 49th Year of her Age.{{pb}}SINCERITY and SENSIBILITY<br/>POLITENESS and AFFABILITY<br/>GODLINESS and CHARITY</br>Were, with SENSE refined and PERSON elegant, in her UNITED.{{pb}}From a grateful Remembrance of her affectionate Tenderness and constant Performance of all the duties of a GOOD WIFE, this Monument is erected in the Year 1787, by Him who knew her Worth, and still laments her Loss.'' ::[[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:45, 8 May 2019 (UTC) :::This is why we have COI rules. I wonder what it would have said if she had written it. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:Levivich|Leviv]]&thinsp;<span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(45deg);bottom:-.57em;">[[User Talk:Levivich|ich]]</span></span> 13:21, 8 May 2019 (UTC) {{-}} [[File:John R in Monmouth.jpg|right|thumb|upright|Grave of John Renie. If you're confused, start with the large H in the center and head out in any direction.]] There's probably a decent book—or essay at least—to be written on why pre-industrial England (and the assorted other nations in its sphere), and the late-Victorian death cult, produced such peculiar graves among the middle and upper-middle classes to an extent that was never replicated anywhere else or in any other period. When it comes to truly weird gravestones, the undisputed champion is that of John Renie, in the otherwise totally godforsaken town of Monmouth.&nbsp;&#8209;&nbsp;[[User:Iridescent|Iridescent]] 19:56, 8 May 2019 (UTC) {{Clear}} == Update == I just found out that [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1983/06/26/a-happy-life-afterward-doesnt-make-up-for-torture/ab680b30-237b-4b7a-b6da-1f7ab3da9208/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1d4eb10afec9 [[Dax Cowart]]] died a little over a week ago, April 28th. I updated his bio. Thank you for your help in improving the article. [[User:Atsme|<span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">^Atsme</span>]] _{[[User talk:Atsme|<small>Talk</small>]]} [[Special:EmailUser/Atsme|📧]] 22:35, 8 May 2019 (UTC) :My pleasure. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 04:18, 11 May 2019 (UTC)'