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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  17:36, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Dakota Ditcheva

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Dakota Ditcheva (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Teen age amateur Muay Thai fighter who fails to meet WP:NKICK. Coverage is routine sports reporting and fails to meet WP:GNG. Jakejr (talk) 07:00, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 08:33, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I saw AFD this on my watchlist. In wikipedia sports notability is created by wikiprojects. Perhaps the nominator is right about WP:NKICK but the WP:GNG part is wrong about a world champion. Junior world champion ND GOLD MEDALIST, NATIONAL CHAMPION Fails WP:GNG is ridiculous.
The article should not have been moved out of article space while the AfD was in progress and I messed up trying to move it back.Peter Rehse (talk) 17:51, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: I have moved the article back to its place in the mainspace to allow this AFD to proceed. It was being moved all over the place by different editors which was disrupting this AFD. The article cannot be speedily deleted under WP:G7 because a number of other editors have worked on the article. Additionally, it shouldn't be userified to contravene an AFD outcome because the author simply disagrees with the other editors. The purpose of userfying drafts is that so the author can work on the article to get it up to our inclusion criteria -- and not to grant them another opportunity to try again later. Maybe the article meets the criteria now; maybe it does not. That's why we have discussions like this and interrupting the process is not going to help in the community making that determination. I have advised Marvellous Spider-Man that they can request the article be moved to their userspace after the AFD at WP:REFUND or put their request in here for review by the closing admin. Mkdwtalk 18:07, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am requesting here to the closing Administrator, Please userfy this article to my userspace draft. User:Marvellous Spider-Man/Dakota Ditcheva as she is not that non-notable as the nominator thinks due to these sources BBC, mirror, elle uk and being in the news for being a world champion. maybe world champion at the junior level, but still a world champion. Marvellous Spider-Man 18:22, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 10:49, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 10:49, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, added women project to article talkpage so that participants are notified of this afd.
  • (warning: 1st bit is humorous) Comment, this has got to be a "keep", look how cute her pigtails are - [1], c'mon coola, just because a subject is cute, doesn't mean they are notable, remember the cute pics at no articles for these, oh, thats right, now to the serious bit; nom states that Ditcheva does not meet WP:NKICK which is not surprising as she has only just turned professional and has come to notice as an amateur, winning multiple IFMA world (junior) championships she may meet WP:ANYBIO as having "received a well-known and significant award or honor" and WP:SPORTCRIT - "are likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level (such as the Olympics).", as the IFMA "is the sole recognised sport governing body of amateur Muaythai" (from lead of its wikiarticle) Ditcheva would seem to meet this criteria, so this is a "keep". Coolabahapple (talk) 13:50, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think your interpretation of WT:NSPORT is wrong since it recommends using the sport specific criteria, which she clearly fails. Both MMA and kickboxing clearly state amateur competitions don't support notability. Junior competitions are virtually never considered enough to meet notability criteria--and I've never seen it in a martial arts case. Astudent0 (talk) 14:43, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I have been watching Coolabahapple work in Nagpur for one year. I agree with the above comment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.39.39.143 (talk) 02:02, 27 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
— 1.39.39.143 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Just when support votes, pile on. One member of this team comes to vote delete. If you think that BBC, Daily Mirror is local coverage, then you are missing WP:CIR. --Marvellous Spider-Man 14:11, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete Looking at the last sentence of WP:NKICK, there are some third-party sources, such as BBC and Daily Mirror, but isn't quite enough for an amateur kickboxer to establish notability. The rest of the references are from local news. I think this article will reappear eventually, but as it stands I think it's WP:TOOSOON. Minima© (talk) 11:53, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note There is a new development here. The IP commented, Keep I have been watching Coolabahapple's work in Nagpur for one year. I agree with the above comment., which was altered by Astudent0 by replacing @Coolabahapple:'s name with 1.39.39.143. A six year old editor can't say "I made a simple mistake". Reminding another simple mistake by the nominator of not notifying the page creator of this deletion discussion. Marvellous Spider-Man 08:18, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer to WP:AGF. I just corrected what I assume was a simple editing error by Astudent0 and notifying the article's creator of an AfD is not required, although it is considered a good practice. All editors make occasional mistakes. For example, in your comment above I assume you meant to say that Astudent0 had been editing WP for six years, not that he was six years old. Papaursa (talk) 00:38, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Astudent0 could have corrected his own comment. Why did you take the responsibility to correct his comment. How were you sure that, at this time he won't be able to reach the place from where he usually logins? Marvellous Spider-Man 13:19, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You really are quite tiresome. I corrected the statement because it didn't make sense to me so I suspected other editors coming along would also be confused. I have corrected obvious mistakes by other editors before, but I always make a note that I'm doing it. Papaursa (talk) 00:41, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone can check the date of account creation: you can see when I created my account, not my birth certificate. Nice try. Marvellous Spider-Man 02:16, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I believe you missed my point about mistakes. Papaursa (talk) 03:38, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You said I happen to agree with those who also don't believe that WP:GNG is met.. Those two comments made before you are by Jakejr and Astudent0. Marvellous Spider-Man 15:18, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As well as PRehse who agreed with the nom and Minima who stated the coverage was not quite enough. I'm not sure why you keep trying to make a controversy. Papaursa (talk) 00:41, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Now lets wait and watch whether Mdtemp comes to vote delete. Marvellous Spider-Man 02:17, 30 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE These users are under an ongoing SPI Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Papaursa. Marvellous Spider-Man 13:56, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per WP:GNG (which trumps WP:NKICK) and Google News 1. Article could use expansion, not deletion per WP:ATD. Hmlarson (talk) 18:51, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, just to clarify a few things, some of the above editors who are suggesting delete state Ditcheva does not meet WP:NKICK, which as i have stated before is not surprising as this sng (as with the other sports sngs) covers professionals. But it also says "Kickboxers that have an amateur background exclusively are not considered notable unless(my emphasis) the person has been the subject examined in detail (more than a single paragraph) in several reliable third-party sources (at least four), excluding local publications." The article presently has more then 4 references that meets this. Editors also have not answered the proposition that as the junior world IFMA champion she meets WP:SPORTCRIT as having "participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level". (so one of the statements above that "Neither junior nor amateur championships meet notability criteria" is not necessarily correct.) Also, another statement "(apart from BBC and Daily Mirror) The rest of the references are from local news." is also misleading, Elle UK is a national magazine, Messenger Newspapers represent the North-West of England, the Manchester Evening News "is a regional daily newspaper", Sport England is a national body, and IFMA is the governing body for amateur Muaythai world wide, so actually none of the references presently cited in the article are "local". Coolabahapple (talk) 08:01, 3 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say it's hard to invoke WP:SPORTCRIT when she doesn't meet the particular notability criteria for her sport. Amateur and junior championships are rarely considered sufficient to show notability, and I can't think of any cases where it's been enough for a martial artist. As for coverage, it's pretty clear that the Messenger papers are local coverage when the paper's tag is "Get the latest local news". Given that she goes to a school (Trafford) in the Manchester area, I don't see how you can claim the Manchester paper is not local coverage. Even papers like the New York Times have coverage of area athletes that can only be considered local. It appears there's a definite difference of opinion as to whether or not she meets WP:GNG, so I suspect this will be closed as a no consensus--and that means the article will remain on WP. Perhaps one day she'll meet the sports notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 00:04, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Touché Coolabahapple (talk) 04:47, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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