Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ernest R. Smith

Articles for deletion/Ernest R. Smith
Medal record
Mens Judo, Karate
Representing USA
Mardi Gras National Karate Championships
All Marine Judo Championships
US National Championships
World Masters Judo Championships

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Due to sources being unable to be produced by those asking for this article's inclusion, this article's subject is found to not be notable. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 01:38, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ernest R. Smith

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Non-notable martial artist. No significant independent coverage and his career highlights were finishing fifth as a Scottsdale YMCA tournament and defeating the only other competitor in his age and weight division at the age of 66. This is not enough to satisfy WP:MANOTE.Mdtemp (talk) 19:16, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Peter Rehse (talk) 21:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:13, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Meets Meets WP:ATHLETE. He is the subject of multiple independent articles. He also won the All Marine Grand Championship title in 1974 ^[1]

commentpass MANOTE [1] by either being (1) Subject of an independent article/documentary, (2) Olympic participant or world champion of a significant international organization; - more than a few dozen competitors, (3) Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion). The high ranking rationale that you stated for deletion for a number of them applies when ... "Only achievement seems to be that they teach an art (or founded a non-notable art); perhaps also avoid even mentioning them in the article of the art unless they are one of a few high-ranked artists in an art that has thousands of students." Judo has hundred of thousand practitioners.CrazyAces489 (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Another example of passing mentions and senior citizen success in divisions of 2 people. Not the highest level of competition.Mdtemp (talk) 20:12, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All Marine Grand Championship is not senior citizen and indepedent articles are not passing mentions. CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As per nominator. The competitions were not at the highest level.Peter Rehse (talk) 15:26, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

commentA world champion makes you a competitor at the highest level.CrazyAces489 (talk) 18:14, 26 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Winning a two person senior division is not equivalent to besting dozens of competitors in their prime. Papaursa (talk) 18:10, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

He passes WP:BIO, WP:GNG and WP:MANOTE. CrazyAces489 (talk) 05:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:MANOTE since the coverage is only passing mentions and this is another case where winning a two person senior citizen division title is insufficient to show success at the highest level of competition. Papaursa (talk) 18:10, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
commentThat happens in many places. A person who is from Pitcairn Islands can have the only person who does Judo make their nations Olympic Team. This is the problem with WP:MANOTE He is a world champion an all marine champion, the subject of an independent articles and has a high rank in a significant organization. CrazyAces489 (talk) 04:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, judo competitors need to qualify. Every country is not entitled to a competitor. Only the host nation gets an automatic entrant. You still haven't shown that he's actually competed at the highest level. You keep repeating the same arguments, but without addressing other people's comments. No matter how many times you say it, winning a two persion senior citizen division is not the same as competing at the highest level against dozens of competitors from other countries. Some of your senior citizen "world" champions didn't even compete against anyone not from their own state, much less another country. Papaursa (talk) 05:09, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MANOTE He qualified based on Subject of an independent article/documentary, Olympic participant or world champion of a significant international organization; - more than a few dozen competitors (CISM is a significant international organization.) and Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion) (World Masters is significant international tournament as well as All Marines)CrazyAces489 (talk) 06:06, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

^ https://wp.usjudo.org/Files/Internal_Files/eLetter/2011/ClubBarstow111005.pdf

Delete He didn't win at CISM, he won a 2 person division. The All Marines tournament is nowhere close to being equivalent to the national championships. Fails WP:MANOTE and lacks the coverage required by WP:GNG. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 21:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
commentAll Marine is a national tournament. Marines from all over the nation. It is significant. He is also the subject of an independent article. CrazyAces489 (talk) 05:32, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 13:49, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

keep by WP:Athlete and WP:GNG.World Masters Champ makes him notable. He cleared out his division in the US and the World. 24.103.234.74 (talk) 20:59, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as there are no reliable sources to establish notability. Winning a championship at age 66 is impressive, but sadly the World Masters isn't a big enough tournament to be covered on Wikipedia. Aerospeed (Talk) 13:15, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
commentUS Nationals are a major tournament and being a member of the US National Team. CrazyAces489 (talk) 15:26, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
comment WP:MANOTE supporting notability include (1) Subject of an independent article/documentary, (2)

Olympic participant or world champion of a significant international organization; - more than a few dozen competitors, and (3) Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion) All of these are fulfilledCrazyAces489 (talk) 15:33, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[1] ttps://wp.usjudo.org/Files/Internal_Files/eLetter/2011/ClubBarstow111005.pdf

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