Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karl Geis (judo)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Davewild (talk) 07:39, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Karl Geis (judo)

Karl Geis (judo) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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High rank is not enough to show notability and I see nothing that show he meets WP:MANOTE. His resume at his dojo consists mainly of listing who he learned from and who he taught, but notability is not inherited.Mdtemp (talk) 18:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. — kikichugirl ^speak up! 18:42, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. — kikichugirl ^speak up! 18:42, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

keepHe not only has a high rank, he has multiple mentions in Black Belt Magazine, is the subject of independent articles and is a founding member of the United States Judo Association. He fully passes GNG. CrazyAces489 (talk) 19:06, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

pass MANOTE [1] by either being (1) Subject of numerous independent article/documentary, The high ranking rationale that you stated for deletion for a number of them applies when ... "Only achievement seems to be that they teach an art (or founded a non-notable art); perhaps also avoid even mentioning them in the article of the art unless they are one of a few high-ranked artists in an art that has thousands of students." Judo has hundred of thousand practitioners.CrazyAces489 (talk) 19:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

High rank has never been enough to show notability in the martial arts on Wikipedia nor is founding your own organization (which then promotes you to 10th dan as you're dying).Mdtemp (talk) 20:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Subject of numerous independent article/documentary, He is a high rank in Judo! He didn't award himself the rank! The USJA is a major organization for Judo in America. He is noted as being the top Psychologist in Judo, is a noted author in the field of Sport Psychology. CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:15, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Since when is being the top psychologist in a sport grounds for notability? Show me he meets the criteria as a noted academic for his psych work. Martial arts rank never has been accepted as grounds for notability on WP.Mdtemp (talk) 20:20, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Please familiarize yourself with MANOTE and GNG. He passes both! Read this independent article please. [2] CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:25, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

An article by a parent of a student is not considered independent coverage.Mdtemp (talk) 20:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Please read the article, the parent didn't write the article.[3] That is a quote.. Also this profile, [4]CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:41, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Black Belt Magazine Judo Competitor of the Year for 1974CrazyAces489 (talk) 04:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

• Redirect to Fugakukai International Association. Karl Geis founded the Fugakukai and through that organization I think has had quite a bit of influence on Aikido in some areas of the US. I don't think he merits his own stand alone article. One of the stated reasons the USJA was founded was the slow promotion of American judoka. There was some justification for that but then I believe they went a little crazy with the self promotions. So it really does not matter whether Geis self promoted or was promoted by an organization he helped found - its the same thing really and high rank has never been an indicator of notability.Peter Rehse (talk) 15:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
• comment He is very important in Aikido and if you want to add it to the article you sure can! I would like to say that "Black Belt Magazine Judo Competitor of the Year for 1974" which got him into black belt magazine hall of fame [5] is indicative of notability! CrazyAces489 (talk) 18:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
• Weak Keep I believe Geis merits a mention in WP, though I'm not really convinced he merits his own article. His ranks and Hall of Fame membership are not considered indicators of notability (remember Black Belt in that era also believed in Frank Dux) and I can't find any references that show he meets any notability criteria for his judo competitions. However, I think you can argue that there is enough coverage for him to meet WP:GNG. You could also easily argue against it, but I'm feeling somewhat inclusionist today. Papaursa (talk) 17:48, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NORTH AMERICA¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:34, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

• keep by WP:Athlete and WP:GNG. Major founder of Aikido in the United States 24.103.234.74 (talk) 21:03, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 00:16, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.