Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kellen Gordon

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Tone 07:53, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kellen Gordon

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Clearly fails WP:NRU, WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T·C 00:46, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Rugby union-related deletion discussions. SportingFlyer T·C 00:46, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. SportingFlyer T·C 00:46, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:14, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Kellen Gordon has played 26 games for a professional team in a high performance professional league, including playing in the championship match of both the inaugural and second seasons. As per Wikipedia’s standards for rugby union players this qualifies him as notable.

Therefore there is no justification for deleting the page on those grounds as the statement that the article “clearly fails” those standards is quite clearly incorrect. In terms of primary sources there are several references on the page. Multiple others can be found by even a cursory internet search of ‘kellen gordon rugby’.

Major League Rugby is in its infancy but is already in the top 7 professional rugby union leagues in terms of attendance and is garnering increasing media attention as more high profile players from established rugby nationals have signed to join the league for its 3rd season. Players in this league whilst far from household names are therefore notable in the same way players from the first few seasons of Major League Soccer are, likely more so as Rugby Union’s professional game is that much smaller so MLR players make up a larger proportion of the professional rugby player pool. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpsmith1988 (talk • contribs)

Keep - WP:NRU seems to be satisfied by his play for the Seattle Seawolves, who compete in Major League Rugby, which is on the list of approved fully professional teams over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union/Notability criteria. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 11:34, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: I don't know if that league was properly vetted in the same way the list of fully professional leagues are over at the football project - it looks like it was just added one day in 2018, and searching the WikiProject for "Major League Rugby" brings up no hits. Those notability guidelines assume that any player playing in a professional league will receive press coverage, but there's barely any press coverage of this league - a WP:GNG search for Kellen Gordon brought up no significant coverage from any reliable publications, and the Seawolves as a whole have only received a smattering of coverage from papers such as the Seattle Times, so I don't think players in this league are automatically notable. SportingFlyer T·C 11:57, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your concerns SportingFlyer. Regarding the dearth of coverage, it's a rugby league in the U.S., frankly I'm surprised there's any coverage. And I noticed that it was a change by a single user, with apparently zero conversation on the project's talk page (I checked back in the archives for the time period the change was made). In addition, that particular essay doesn't have a lot of page watchers, so the fact that it has gone unchallenged for over a year isn't something that would set it in stone for me either. Having said, every team in the league as a local TV deal, and the league itself apparently inked a deal with CBS for national coverage. So I understand your nom, but am being a bit of an inclusionist here. Think I'll post a notice on the talk page to see if we can't get some response from folks with a deeper knowledge of RU than I.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:12, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - if as a result of this AfD the league is not deemed to satisfy RU SNG, then I think this player should be redirected to the team, rather than a straight delete. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:26, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment If the decision is made to redirect or delete, I would look at other articles created by the original editor as they are creating many new articles about players and the style is exactly the same. However, each player should be judged individually based on their career. MensanDeltiologist (talk) 19:36, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Lack of independent substantive sources about this person. Even IF a league paying its players means its employees have a presumption of being public-facing, actual coverage is still required. Reywas92^Talk 20:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep "little coverage" ≠ "no coverage". There are some reliable sources mentioning him; some in the article, and others elsewhere. ElAhrairah ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 18:17, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The sources in the article are all primary or self-published or from a marketing campaign, the two provided there one is promotional from the alumni page of his college and the other is the league website, unfortunately none of those sources appear to pass WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T·C 22:19, 29 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:NEXIST. We have enough coverage of the subject to satisfy GNG. Lightburst (talk) 20:08, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the person meets the requirements for WP:NRU. played 26 games for a professional team seems a WP:BEFORE should have found this information. Wm335td (talk) 20:07, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Wm335td: I did an extensive WP:BEFORE. Meeting a sports SNG does not guarantee notability if WP:GNG isn't met, he fails by a mile and a kilometer, and in any case, see my response to Onel5969 about how that league was added to the WP:NRU list anyways without being vetted. SportingFlyer T·C 00:29, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Passes WP:NRU.4meter4 (talk) 18:44, 3 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.