Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Christian Brothers school alumni

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. J04n(talk page) 20:09, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

List of Christian Brothers school alumni

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Completely non notable categorisation of alumni from a selected group of schools. Whilst each BLP in the article is notable in their own right (at least has their own articles) as are each school, the respective schools that each name are affiliated to also already has an alumni section attached to that article. Furthermore, the list appears to be a interest project of just particular user. Ajf773 (talk) 07:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 (talk) 07:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 (talk) 07:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. Ajf773 (talk) 07:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If I'm understanding the nominator correctly, this is a conglomerate list of alumni from a group of schools, similar to if we had List of Ivy League school alumni. So long as this really is duplicative of individual school lists, I think this can just be deleted, otherwise we should take care the information is preserved in the appropriate places for each school separately before getting rid of this. postdlf (talk) 20:19, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is not at all similar. The Ivy League is a football league formed by a group of colleges each of which was independently founded and is independently managed, whereas every Christian Brothers School is run by the Congregation of Christian Brothers, a single, international religious order of teaching monks, with a Brother Superior who in chief of the whole shebang.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:04, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per Postdlf. Not improper for Wikipedia, but in a different format (by school.) SportingFlyer (talk) 00:43, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It does not just relate to an ad hoc collection of schools but relates to schools operated by a religious order across 20 or so countries. It connects with List of Christian Brothers schools and is similar to List of alumni of Jesuit educational institutions. Wikipedia is replete with lists of people with connections which are interesting to some, such as, for example (and there are many examples): List of former Protestants or List of Christian denominations affirming LGBT and many others. I don't see why the subject list should be treated differently from them.Emendment (talk) 03:52, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:49, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The association of alumni with a particular school is notable, the second degree of separation associating alumni with the religious order is NOT. Duplicating the alumni of each school (appears to be well over 100 of them worldwide) and listing into one article serves no encyclopedic purpose. You also mentioned a few other articles which I am considering nominating for deletion as well. Ajf773 (talk) 17:57, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think the only one similar to this one is the List of alumni of Jesuit educational institutions, I also don't see the informational value to grouping those together in this way, at most it should just be converted to a list of lists. The others are really just irrelevant WP:OTHERSTUFF comparisons. postdlf (talk) 19:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think all the wikipedia lists (see List of lists of lists) need to be examined subject to the overarching criteria before any of the lists discussed are deleted.Emendment (talk) 22:51, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- We normally allow school alumni categories and lists. It might be better to have a category for Christian Brothers alumni articles (and categories). A list such as this for all the schools run by a Catholic Order together will inevitably become unwieldy. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:50, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is one already: Category:Congregation of Christian Brothers schools Ajf773 (talk) 19:08, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. We may need to split this further by individual school, or by country, but this is a good start. We always include notable alumni for schools, and if there are more than a few of them, a separate list is appropriate. DGG ( talk ) 23:48, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Practically every school mentioned in this article already has an alumni section. The AfD is for the combined alumni of 100+ schools regarding a second degree of separation. You haven't exactly given a reason to support this. Ajf773 (talk) 00:42, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The point is that all of the persons who are listed were taught across many countries by the international organisation, the Congregation of Christian Brothers. Although they may be listed in different schools, it is the connection to the Christian Brothers that is the important one. Would it help if the attribution to the different schools are deleted? But that is interesting to some. As discussed the most similar list appears to be List of alumni of Jesuit educational institutions. The connection to the Christian Brothers is interesting to some just as some are interested in things like List of people on the postage stamps of the United Arab Emirates or any other of the hundreds of examples on wikipedia.Emendment (talk) 02:03, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

But you haven't been able to explain why it is important other than The connection to the Christian Brothers is interesting to some. Lists have to be notable too. Ajf773 (talk) 02:12, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The question comes whether there are sources that would put together a list across all Christian Brothers schools, or whether we editors are doing original research to make up such a list. If the alumni association across all schools keeps a public database like this, then that would suffice. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:50, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not "original research" as we can verify that these schools are part of this group and these people are alumni of those schools, thus these people are alumni of schools in this group. It's more just a question of what informationally or navigationally do we gain by listing these alumni of these different schools together in one undifferentiated mass, and I haven't seen a good argument for doing that yet. postdlf (talk) 18:34, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It is not the attribution to the various schools which is important. It is the fact that the persons listed are all alumni of the Congregation of Christian Brothers. Therefore the list is actually on all fours with List of alumni of Jesuit educational institutions and if the Christian Brothers list is deleted than so must the Jesuit one.Emendment (talk) 19:34, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. While the other article may also be a candidate for AfD we are discussing this article only. Also we're still waiting for a compelling reason how alumni linked to a Christian congregation alone is notable. Ajf773 (talk) 19:38, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Because the Congregation of Christian Brothers is a religious order just like the Jesuits. That is it is a corporate structure with a defined membership of people who have a vocation for that way of highly regulated life. We are not just talking about a "Christian congregation". It is the ethos of the education offered by such an organisation (whether the the Christian Brothers or the Jesuits) and the characteristics of the people educated under it which makes the topic notableEmendment (talk) 22:26, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The alumni belong to the schools, not to the Christian Brothers. The Banner talk 02:10, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep these schools are all part of a single chain, or brand, all under the authority of of a single teaching order of monks, the Congregation of Christian Brothers, and all answer to a Superior General who sits at headquarters. Note that we have an article List of alumni of Jesuit educational institutions, a similar set-up, and we could have such articles on a nuber of other orders, such as those in Category:Sisters of Saint Joseph schools, and other Category:Catholic schools by order. Also note Alliance Israélite Universelle#Notable alumni, the Alliance Israélite Universelle was a 19th century Paris-based chain of schools for Jewish children in Muslim countries, it was run out of Paris and taught a modern curriculum in French.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.