Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Madison Tung

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 13:03, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Madison Tung

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Precedent is that being a RhodesScholar is not enough for an article. I'm not sure I agree, but I think it well to be consistent. DGG ( talk ) 00:25, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:43, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:43, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:43, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 05:43, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Lubbad85 (☎) 00:10, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Being a national champion in women's wrestling ought to be enough for notability. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 07:12, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Hadn't fully considered the sports aspect as much but the notability criteria for sports says "a sportsperson is presumed to be notable if the person has actively participated in a major amateur or professional competition or won a significant honor and so is likely to have received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." Seems to apply here due to many media/other sources. Novabrahm (talk) 17:46, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete At this time, the notability factor hasn't been met. Inching close to it though. Maybe in the future there will be more to say. Trillfendi (talk) 19:46, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Page is much more detailed now - I feel that notability has been clearly met to the level of other athletes by inclusion of additional info. Welcome your thoughts! Novabrahm (talk) 19:05, 15 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Her wrestling championship was for high school girls in the 113-117 pound division in folkstyle wrestling. Folkstyle is not one of the internationally recognized styles (which are freestyle and Greco-Roman). I don't think that any SNG is met. I haven't looked at the sources carefully enough to comment about meeting WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 20:39, 15 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Being a junior folkstyle wrestling does not meet WP:SPORTBASIC unless a sportsperson won a major NCAA Division title or participate in major events such as Olympic games, world championship event (senior level). The rest of the sources does not quality WP:GNG as they are merely outlines her background such as being in the air force, receive a scholarship and graduated from a University. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 01:39, 16 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. A notable achievment that may qualify beyond the Rhodes scholarship is that she may be one of the 1st persons to be a selectee for all of the following national scholarships: Stamps, Truman, Schwartzman, Marshall and Rhodes. If this achievement would satisfy notability criteria, the page and citations could be updated to reflect this. 20:38, 17 June 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.91.104.91 (talk)

— 172.91.104.91 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 21:40, 17 June 2019 (UTC). Papaursa (talk) 02:42, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Being a national champion is sufficient notability to include her. Simonm223 (talk) 15:43, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. My understanding of WP:SPORTBASIC is that the guidelines for NCAA division title or Olympics are a rule of thumb because such figures are likely to meet WP:BASIC. I feel that multiple independent secondary sources for multiple accomplishments meets the intent of WP:BIO. Novabrahm (talk) 20:30, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Quite a few notable things about this subject. Rhodes scholar: Each year 32 young students from the United States are selected. ...So that is quite a prestigious award (I added some sources). Next: first woman to wrestle for the all men's team at the USAF Academy which is NCAA Division I In addition the subject is a Stamps scholar - from what I have read there are 900 current scholars, and Truman scholar 55-65 annually ...so the Truman award is limited to a few very qualified people. There are significant secondary sources where the subject was featured as well. And the subject has a Black Belt in Hapkido (primary sourced). To sum it up, person meets our WP:GNG Lubbad85 (☎) 21:31, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Questions Where is the evidence she wrestled on the men's wrestling team? I looked at the 45 man wrestling roster [1] and did not see her name. There's also no evidence that she has ever completed at the highest level, which is the default for--high school events are not the highest level. Finally, the claim that no one else has been awarded these multiple scholarships sounds like original research unless there is an independent reliable source. Is there? Papaursa (talk) 02:42, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

comment Subject was not on the USAFA roster and not a scholarship athlete. The addition of that USAFA wrestling blurb is information only found in mini bios for the subject's other noteworthy awards. The subject meets GNG by being a Rhodes Scholar. WP:NSPORT is not the only criteria for the subject to meet - subject meets GNG...subject has to pass one, not both. Lubbad85 (☎) 03:20, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

According to DGG, the precedent is that being a Rhodes Scholar is not grounds for automatic notability. In my original comment I said I hadn't decided if WP:GNG was met and that's still true. I'm simply trying to get rid of extraneous issues that people keep citing as proof of notability so I can focus on what I believe is the real deciding factor. Papaursa (talk) 03:42, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I understand. Arguably WP:ANYBIO could apply to Rhodes Scholars: "The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times." Rhodes Scholarship is the among the most prestigious awards/scholarships a scholar can receive and it is widely known and reported. Very few Americans (32 annually) receive the award...and recipients get a full ride to Oxford (2 year renewable) and all expenses paid. In addition very few Americans (55-65) receive the $30,000 Truman Award making it extremely prestigious and the award also makes most of the lists of most prestigious scholarships. I believe the subject meets GNG in several other ways as I stated above. I will now step back so I do not WP:BLUDGEON this Afd thread. Lubbad85 (☎) 17:35, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Subject is on the roster as a manager per NCAA rules due to being female. Listed in the cited media guide from the 2015-2016 season. It's social media (albeit an official account) so IMO not a suitable source for the article, but also referenced here: https://twitter.com/afawrestling/status/696844318707814400 I personally would believe it to be plausible that she is the first to win all the major grad scholarships, but I don't see a source for that and therefore don't think it suitable for inclusion in the article or notability criteria. Novabrahm (talk) 03:31, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. More broadly, though, I'm not sure we need to worry about meeting WP:NSPORT - subject seems notable according to society (and POTUS, evidently :) ), due to availability of secondary sources. There's no self-pub or anything. Novabrahm (talk) 03:40, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, meets WP:ANYBIO as "has received a well-known and significant award or honor" ie. being a Rhodes scholar. Coolabahapple (talk) 23:16, 20 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Nothing in her athletic record makes her WP notable, but there's plenty of coverage about her being a Rhodes Scholar. It could be argued that's a BLP1E event, but then there's the Truman scholarship. I think a reasonable case has been made for her meeting WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 02:38, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.