Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Piano rock (3rd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Spartaz ^Humbug! 21:55, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Piano rock

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As previously stated, piano rock is not a genre, so this can only mean a rock song with a piano. See previous nominations, too. Please note: previous AfDs were both delete.Richhoncho (talk) 21:02, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The article is full of unreliable sources and the reliable sources it has are misused. Most importantly, none of them point to a genre that is called "piano rock".--SabreBD (talk) 21:16, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The topic certainly exists and is notable as there are numerous books written about it including:

Rock 'N' Roll Piano
The Everything Rock & Blues Piano Book
Rock Piano: For Beginning to Advanced Students
Progressive Rock Piano
The Best of Rock 'n' Roll Piano
Discovering Rock Piano
Rock Piano: Professional Know-how of Contemporary Keyboard-playing
The Total Rock Keyboardist
Improvising Rock Piano
Rock Around the Piano

The topic therefore passes the general notability guide. It's obviously a popular form used by artists such as Jerry Lee lewis and Elton John and so seems as sensible a musical topic as jazz piano or the piano concerto. Andrew D. (talk) 21:41, 24 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Of course pianos are used in rock music, and all of the books listed above are about the piano in rock music. Not the same as 'piano rock' as a genre - books about rock drumming wouldn't make 'drumming rock' a valid genre. My instinct is that there is a valid genre here (or perhaps a semi-coherent style of rock music), but I'm not sure that it's supported by sources. --Michig (talk) 07:35, 25 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Genres have often been defined by the instrumentation that is constituted therein. Take an example of piano blues that's bluesy music based around the piano, or EDM that's made up of electronically improvised instruments. There's instruments that have grown to be staples and almost inevitable in mainstream rock such as electric guitars, and so designating a rock sub-genre along that line would be logically useless! But pianos don't fall in that category. Another example is acoustic rock that's performed by acoustic instruments. It is a common valid way to distinguish a genre using the lead instrument.user:James Odisemoor (talk) 12:34, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep From the Rolling Stone magazine to Allmusic, there's a whole lot of evidence of "piano rock" being regarded as a genre in rock music. Bands like Coldplay and the like are referred to in that vein. The definitive melody of a genre is determined by the lead instrument and so the argument that it can't be a sufficient criterion to designate a name for the genre holds little water.user:James Diner (talk) 12:42, 28 October 2015 (UTC
Comment. Piano rock, just like piano blues, just like raga rock, just like synth rock is a valid classification of a particular sphere of music on the pop scene. It's allover wikipedia in French, Spanish e.t.c.

Johnxxxxsp (talk) 12:49, 28 October 2015 (UTC

I checked the Piano blues article, and saw a list of pianists, who were described as playing in the following genres; Boogie-woogie, stride, Chicago etc, so perhaps that article should be renamed List of blues pianists...? AS for other comments, there is acoustic music, but not acoustic guitar or guitar rock! There is a reason. As for what is in the French & Italian Wiki... WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and WP:RS. --Richhoncho (talk) 09:54, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per nom and several of the above editors. In reviewing the past two AfD's, both of which resulted in delete, I find the most cogent comment to be Scottywong's, which said "A genre is a style of music, which is largely independent of the instrument on which it is played. This is why there is not one other subgenre of rock that is defined by a specific instrument. You can play rock songs on a ukulele, but that doesn't make it "Ukulele Rock". It's just rock played on a ukulele."Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:38, 1 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 22:21, 1 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per reasons above. Aria1561 (talk) 02:29, 7 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I'm sympathetic to the notional genre but if the main sources are terribly weak ones such as unsigned Last.fm pages then the topic is not ready for prime time. The entire "Terminology" section is a violation of WP:SYNTH and WP:NOR. The part explaining how "piano rock" became a distinct rock genre hinges on a source that doesn't even mention piano rock! This patchwork article cannot represent the topic; rather, if there is a topic to present to the reader, then our text must be based on solid sources. Binksternet (talk) 07:18, 8 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Sailor ^Talk! 05:06, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Not surprised this got re-created, this will inevitably get recreated even if we salted the name, because it is a legitimate subject, just poorly written about and sourced.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 03:43, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:30, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't think the reasons for deletion have been adequately addressed. Rainbow unicorn (talk) 23:11, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete If there's a genre here, the article doesn't make a good case for it, and neither do its sources or supporters. Fats Domino and Coldplay are the same subgenre of rock because both use pianos? Nah. There's certainly a category of piano-centered singer-songwriters à la Elton John and Billy Joel (both of whom owe a greater debt to Paul McCartney than to Jerry Lee Lewis) that extends through artists such as Ben Folds, Fiona Apple, Joe Jackson, and Vanessa Carlton; but, you can't rope in any band that sometimes uses piano (Coldplay) or any piano-playing rock artist (Keith Emerson) based on the instrument alone. And then, whither artists who switched between guitar and piano, such as Joni Mitchell or the aforementioned McCartney? Early rock & roll was piano-based because the electric guitar was still relatively new and a tradition for it had not yet been fully established; that doesn't mean Little Richard was in a separate genre from Chuck Berry. Rather, it seems to me that the singer-songwriter article could be greatly expanded to account for piano-based artists from Carole King to Regina Spektor. Pstoller (talk) 22:10, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.