Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raush Manfio

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. per input from uninvolved editors, Manfio does not meet current guidelines. Should those guidelines be updated, I'm happy to restore this at the time. Star Mississippi 14:55, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Raush Manfio

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Subject is a mixed martial arts fighter. Subject fails NMMA for not having at least 3 top tier promotion fights and also subject also fails GNG for the fight info is merely routine report. (Note: Creator of the article is a MMA reporter which might have a COI with the subject). Cassiopeia talk 23:13, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Cassiopeia talk 23:13, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Cassiopeia talk 23:13, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Brazil-related deletion discussions. Cassiopeia talk 23:13, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Professional Fighters League is a top tier American promotion, broadcast on ESPN. Manfio has four bouts in this promotion, and it the current lightweight champion. Copperheart0718 (talk) 23:44, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment: Professional Fighters League (PFL) is not considered a top tier MMA promotion in Wikipedia. Top tier MMA promotion in Wikipedia are UFC, Bellator (2009-2015 and 2022 onward) and Invicta (women). For a promotion to considered a top tier promotion, the promotion needs to have at least 6 fighters who are ranked world top ten under Sherdog/Fight Matrix ranking system for consistently for at least one year. Cassiopeia talk 00:20, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Maybe the NMMA standard needs to be updated, in that case. Full disclosure: my occupation is Senior Editor at Sherdog. Any list of top-tier promotions that includes Invicta Fighting Championships should also include Professional Fighters League and ONE Championship at the very least, and possibly several more promotions including KSW, M-1, Rizin Fighting Federation, and Absolute Championship Akhmat. While PFL does not currently have six Top 10 fighters in the Sherdog rankings, neither does Invicta, and has not in quite some time. (Incidentally, why Top 10? Sherdog's rankings go to 15, and Fightmatrix's rankings go for as far as you care to keep scrolling.) Invicta has three or four Top 10 fighters, all of them in a single weight class (atomweight). ONE Championship might have more Top 10 fighters than Invicta if not for their peculiar weight/hydration system that makes ranking their fighters a complicated process, but that shouldn't reflect on the noteworthiness of the fighters themselves. Wouldn't it make more sense to treat these on a case-by-case basis? For example, at a glance, half of KSW's current or still-active former champions have Wikipedia articles, none of which seem to be flagged for deletion. Same for ONE Championship. That's as it should be, and similarly, prominent fighters from PFL — certainly champions such as Manfio — are much, much more noteworthy than the dozens of UFC and Bellator undercard fighters who happen to meet the "three fights" standard. User:Saint_Invective — Preceding undated comment added 06:53, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hey! I am in agreement with you, the Invicta induction was put together many years ago back when Invicta was bigger deal. Personally I don't see it as top tier as back then, especially when they started running less and less shows. I was actually in favor in having a second tier where if you become champ off a second tier promotion, you are eligible. Promotions like KSW, Rizin, ACA, PFL, etc would fall into that category, but the issue arrises in what criteria you would need to be in that category. Maybe 2-Minimum for top tier top 10 (15) fighters, be a possibility. Bellator is actually quite a new addition, in the last year, since they also used to be in the same category as the other promotions. The criteria rules have changed, as it used to be just three UFC fights, which meant guys like Jiri (even tho he was top 5 in the UFC), Amosov, etc weren't eligible even tho we all know they were top fighters.

In regards to your rankings on Sherdog, if I can add some suggestion, it would be helpful to list the guys from 11-15 with numbers next to their names or something to indicate that they are actually in the rankings. I didn't know they were actually ranked since I thought there were just "On the brink off being ranked"

But ya I think three proposals on the main project page would be 1. Dropping Invicta to second tier 2. Creating a Second tier (ala X-Minimum for top tier Amount of fighters) 3. Increasing the rankings criteria for top 15 for both Fight matrix and Sherdog.HeinzMaster (talk) 21:49, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I'm all for having PFL and ONE as top tier promotions, but as it stands with current policy WP:MMABIO is clearly failed. ♡RAFAEL♡^(talk) 22:32, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I respectfully disagree with the policy. PFL is a top-tier American promotion, after UFC and Bellator. The policy appears to be outdated and too limited. Beyond being the current PFL champion, this particular fighter has participated on "The Ultimate Fighter" reality show and trained social-media celebrity Jake Paul in one of his most notable boxing bouts. All these facts have proper citations. Copperheart0718 (talk) 23:56, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment" @Copperheart0718, HeinzMaster, and Saint Invective: Copperheart0718 and Saint Invective, Good day and thank your for your comments above. However, there are some points you guys/girls need to understand. First of all both of your are paid MMA editor which means you have COI and WP:PAID issues here. Secondly, a page is deemed worthy of being in the Wikipedia main space IS subject to CURRENT Wikipedia guidelines. If the subject pass the notability guidelines then it stays in Wikipedia but not because the guidelines might need to be changed or the subject might pass the guidelines in the future. As per current NMMA notability guidelines, (1) promotions considered as the top tier is based on if the promotion has at least 6 world top ten fighters in Sherdog ranking system for at least one year consistently and (2) Individual fighter can be considerable notable if they have been ranked world top 10 in either Sherdog/Fight Matrix at anytime of their MMA professional career. We have contently review the NMMA guidelines, and only recently, we added back Ballator as top tier (Top tier:UFC, Invicta (women) and Bellator (2009-2015 and from 2020 onward) thus it is not out dated. So Saint Ivective, it is not because of your reasons of your professional and knowledge should the subject can have a page in Wikipedia but it is based on if the subject passes the Wikipedia guidelines after all this is Wikipedia and not Sherdog. (Dont get me wrong, we use Sherdog sources in Wikipedia and I read Sherdog articles "daily" to keep myself update with MMA info and Sherdog is the pioneer MMA media and one of best, if not the best, MMA media sites in the world) Furthermore, This is AfD (article for deletion) discussion and not about MMA notability guidelines page. So there is not point to discuss your disagreement of notability guidelines here, as it is the wrong venues and the editor who close this discussion will not take your disagreement of notability in to account as it is based on current notability guidelines. If you want to discuss further, pls pop by my talk page. Stay safe and best. Cassiopeia talk 02:12, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the clarification. I will take my main argument here to the NMMA notability guidelines page. If this article ends up being deleted under the current guidelines, that's all right, and it can be re-created if the guidelines change.

However, you have now cited the WP:PAID rules more than once here, and I would like to ask why. From what I can see, those rules apply to people who are paid to edit Wikipedia. I am not. I am paid to write about mixed martial arts for Sherdog. I edit Wikipedia for free, I always have, and have been doing so since long before I worked in MMA media. Does the fact that I work in the industry create an implicit conflict of interest that I need to be aware of? Because otherwise, it seems as though the rule merely serves to drive away contributions from editors with strong knowledge of the subject. Saint Invective (talk) 10:02, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Experts should be encouraged to contribute. Likewise, I prefer that science and history articles be maintained by scientists and historians.

Regarding the rules, I do understand potential conflicts if a fighter or fight team directly pays an editor, or if a personal relationship results in a biased article. That goes against journalistic ethics.

I've personally always edited for free and will continue to do so. I suppose we are on an honor system here. I hope other editors are also unpaid, but I don't see how this sort of thing can be reliably verified. Copperheart0718 (talk) 20:20, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment" [1][2][3][4] Hopefully, some if not all off these support GNG. HeinzMaster (talk) 19:28, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment" Do you have any IRS outside his mma career for many mma fighters have some articles writing about them but there are not notable. Just as there are always have some articles (IRS) talk about a politician during their campaign prior an election and they are still not considred notable as per NPOL until they have been elected; but if subject have other IRS on other then the current career then that is a different thing such as Carlos Ulberg for he is a model besides being a fighter. However, I will let other editors to join the discussion and decide the result of this AfD. Cassiopeia talk 00:14, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:47, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.