There’s a lot to say about Taylor Swift’s latest, a surprise two-part album titled The Tortured Poets Department. Of course, much of that has already been interrogated by The A.V. Club’s Mary Kate Carr in her review of the collection. But here at The A.V. Club, we also like to spend extra time teasing apart the most interesting questions that arise from a piece of art, and The Tortured Poets Department brings up a topic that feels especially pertinent: should Charlie Puth be a bigger artist?
Swift—and possibly her short-lived beau, Matty Healy—think so, as she sings in the album’s title track. The A.V. Club was more split. Mary Kate Carr, Emma Keates, Drew Gillis, and Saloni Gajjar give their takes on this heated and essential debate below.
Should Charlie Puth be a bigger artist? Why or why not?
Mary Kate Carr: I’m not a Charlie Puth fan or a Charlie Puth defender, but yeah, I get why the tortured poet said he should be a bigger artist. He’s really talented! He writes solid songs with big hooks. He has that weird producer’s ability to make music out of anything that he’s always showing off on TikTok.
I think the reason he’s not bigger is, he’s kind of annoying. If I hear “It’s been a long day without you my friend…” or “You’re only one call away…” I’m pressing the skip button. He has songs that I like, but the big hits have gotten overplayed to the point of being grating. And his persona doesn’t help. The Selena Gomez fans, many of whom aren’t thrilled about her bestie name-dropping Puth, can tell you exactly why he’s hard to root for.
Emma Keates: No, plain and simple. His most popular song currently has 1.8 billion streams on Spotify. His top three have over 5 billion combined (and will likely have even more by the time you read this). “See You Again” is nearly a decade old and still plays 30 times a day in every grocery store and dentist’s office in the country. The only person who could conceivably consider that “small” is an artist whose top song on Spotify has 2 billion streams instead of a measly 1.8.
Drew Gillis: I kind of agree with Emma in that he is, at least numerically, pretty big. I do think he’s a decent writer for other people and is undeniably talented, but unfortunately the songs of his that have received major radio play are, frankly, some of the worst pop songs I’ve heard in the past decade: both “See You Again” and the soulless, waxy “Marvin Gaye.” He does feel a bit like a relic from that mid-2010s era of pop; someone like Meghan Trainor will always be famous to the people who were there, but she’s not racking up a big new audience. Shawn Mendes kind of filled Puth’s slot, and even he feels like he’s falling off a bit.
Saloni Gajjar: It’s not like I’m a Charlie Puth fan or voluntarily listen to his music, but whenever it comes on, I don’t mind it. It’s got a very, very basic mass appeal. It explains why it’s impossible to miss his big hits like “See You Again,” “Attention,” or “One Call Away,” whether or not you like those songs.
That doesn’t mean he should necessarily be a bigger star—or so I thought until recently. In early 2024, I watched him perform live for the first time at a Television Critics Association event. I wasn’t expecting much or anything, to be honest, but it turned out to be a surprisingly fun time. His voice is melodious, he’s a good enough lyricist, he knows how to work the crowd, and evidently can pop off with some chartbusters. I guess he has victories via the numbers, as Drew mentions, but unless you’re a committed fan you probably don’t know his discography beyond those songs. (At least I don’t). So in that sense, maybe he should’ve been a bigger star. Why didn’t that happen? Because there wasn’t anything rare or inventive about his music. And now I think the time has passed, so I guess I agree with Swift’s (random) lyrics about him.
What kind of big is Charlie Puth right now? Who does his work or status remind you of?
MC: Charlie is like, medium-big. Most people know one or two of his songs, but there’s probably a lot of people out there who don’t know his name. I think he’s kind of like a Ryan Tedder. Obviously prolific, has written hits for other people, his own stuff is semi-ubiquitous on the radio and he’s obviously super successful. But brand recognition-wise, not huge on his own.
EK: Ryan Tedder is a really great shout. Charlie also reminds me of pop boys like Shawn Mendes and Niall Horan. They exist around me and I’m aware of them because I don’t really have a choice, but I’m never going to go out of my way to seek any of them out.
DG: I would compare Puth to someone like a Bebe Rexha (though I think I prefer her music, in truth). He’s a professional and he’s always around, but I don’t think he’s ever going to be anywhere near a Taylor Swift level, or even a Selena Gomez. There was a time when he would be the trendy artist to hop on a track with someone like Selena, but the last time she did that, the artist was Rema. Is Rema the current Charlie Puth, following this logic I just invented? Maybe.
SG: I think he’s a little less famous than medium-big, if I’m being honest. People are aware of him and his few big songs, but that’s about it. I agree with Emma in the sense that he’s with the other pop boys with a well-established fan base, which is great, but that’s probably all it will be.
Who really should be a bigger artist?
MC: Last week my answer—as many of ours would’ve been, since we put her as #2 on our Album of the Year list in 2023—was Chappell Roan. But it seems like she’s getting her flowers now, so hmm… You know I love Aly & AJ, and as former Disney stars they would be a great subject for Taylor to sing about. Sarah Kinsley should be a bigger artist. I love “Green.”
EK: CARLY RAE JEPSEN, please and thank you.
DG: I was also going to pitch Carly Rae Jepsen, but her trajectory is very strange in that she had a massive breakout hit and then went back to just being, in the words of Bowen Yang, gay famous. Charli XCX is in a similar position—people forget “Boom Clap” and “Fancy” but those were everywhere at one point. I would say either Tinashe or Remi Wolf; they both have toiled in the music industry for about as long as Charlie Puth, but make far more interesting pop music.
SG: Yeah, I immediately thought of Chappell Roan, but thanks to the Guts tour, her excellent new “Good Luck, Babe” and her first album finding its audience even now, she’s already getting there. Personally, the artist I think should be bigger is Arooj Aftab—she won a Grammy in 2022 but I still don’t think people have tapped into her art.