Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kidnapping of Shani Louk

This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2023 November 6.
For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Snowing here. There is a near unanimous agreement that the subject, the act and subsequent activities, has been extensively been covered by reliable sources for it to be notable. (non-admin closure) – robertsky (talk) 04:25, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kidnapping of Shani Louk

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WP:BLP1E (this is a biography by another name). The individual is not notable, and their kidnapping is better covered at Re'im music festival massacre. VQuakr (talk) 21:52, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree, Shani might not be notable as you put it. But she deserves to be remembered separately, for many Shani is who they think of when they think of all that’s happened. She nor any of the victims should ever just be erased just because they aren’t notable to you. I don’t see any reality person as notable but many have their own page, so why can’t Shani keep her page? Does it really hurt you or anyone else to keep it? 2A02:C7C:8ACE:1000:EDE3:F440:ED9C:E027 (talk) 22:06, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Her kidnapping and murder is sufficiently notable. 2804:14D:5C32:4673:6DEB:61FD:FC4A:40E7 (talk) 22:35, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: The article seems to be well cited, as seen from the amount of citations. It would likely pass GNG. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 22:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Completely disagree that "this is a biography by another name". The article covers the kidnapping much more than her life (which just gets a small section). The only thing that could suggest this idea was the lead, which was easily adjusted. Also disagree that the topic is better covered at Re'im music festival massacre. Shani Louk's kidnapping in specific received a large amount of significant coverage in reliable and independent sources, making it independently notable with enough content to be split from the Re'im article. Skyshifter ^talk 22:13, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Not exactly a biography, but a specific event that received wide media coverage Synotia (moan) 14:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Benachrichtigungen

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Military, Israel, Palestine, and Germany. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 22:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:19, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Internet-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:20, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:20, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is not a biography. The subject of the article is a notable event. According to The Guardian: A young Israeli-German woman whose fate became indelibly associated around the globe with the Hamas massacre and mass kidnapping rampage of 7 October ... Meets WP:LASTING, WP:GEOSCOPE, WP:INDEPTH, and WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE.—Alalch E. 22:48, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per skyshifter. Greenshed (talk) 22:57, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Skyshifter. --Uhooep (talk) 23:23, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to the music festival article, her situation was not much different than any of the other victims, one of a few "sub-events" as part of the main "event", being the music festival attack as the main event. The individual alone was not notable, and there isn't really a reason her kidnapping is more important than the other victims. Oaktree b (talk) 00:51, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Kommentar: Most of the sourcing used is about the music festival, not about the individual, other than articles that seem to concentrate on her looks. Most sourcing I've seen talks about her looks, which doesn't help build notability here. Oaktree b (talk) 00:55, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Which of the references concentrate on her looks? —Alalch E. 01:01, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The news articles I've seen published in my corner of the world. Oaktree b (talk) 01:03, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but you said "most of the sourcing used", and it appeared as if you talked about the references in the article. —Alalch E. 01:11, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the sourcing used in the article... then most of the sourcing I see when looking. I hope that clarifies it. Oaktree b (talk) 02:31, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not a valid rationale at all if you are simply ignoring all the sources in the article. RodRabelo7 (talk) 02:37, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I still think it's a merge candidate, as explained. Oaktree b (talk) 13:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment please keep your thoughts on this side or that side of the war to yourselves and only discuss the sources used. Oaktree b (talk) 01:02, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep. This again? Per Skyshifter, that’s not a biography. Much more than Shani Louk herself, the article mainly covers the events that, we now know, lead to her death. It should also be added the article has already been translated to five different Wikipedias (including the Germany, whose Wikidata item is a different one). The article has also been accessed by almost 200,000 people. Furthermore, per Alalch E., it meets WP:LASTING, WP:GEOSCOPE, WP:INDEPTH, and WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE. RodRabelo7 (talk) 02:36, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It already has separate notability from the Re'im music festival massacre article. WP:LASTING, etc. With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 03:07, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. As per WP:Notability. Extensively covered in the media, and multiple sources can be found to cite areas of concern. Can be adjusted accordingly as further details and developments are released. Also agree with Oaktree b's observation regarding the unveiled personal feelings of a few contributors to this discussion. Nothing flouts NPOV.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:11, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: She is notable enough and multiple media sources exclusively deal with her and the incident. -UtoD 06:57, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: obviously. Since 7 October her story was well covered and notable. Shadow4dark (talk) 09:37, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Kieronoldham. Salvabl (talk) 17:40, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep super notable event. Mason (talk) 01:26, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is not a violation of WP:BLP1E, as this is an event, not a biography. After all, for people covered in the context of one event, our guidelines are explicit that [t]he general rule is to cover the event. This article does just that.
As for WP:NEVENT, this has been covered in-depth by diverse international reliable sources over an extended period of time—from the date of the kidnapping through and in the immediate aftermath of Louk's reported death. There have even been follow-ups, with major newspapers like The Times reaching out to the family, interviewing them, and making a feature story about it. This shows a good bit of persistence in the coverage of the story through this point. I obviously I can't predict the future regarding how future coverage will go, but rote speculation on how future coverage will go seems dubious as an affirmative reason for deletion. Looking through this light, this event probably meets WP:EVENTCRIT#2, and it therefore should be kept at this time. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 06:36, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 07:15, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - good sourcing. Top news. Article looks good. Per WP:GNG.BabbaQ (talk) 10:09, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Strong independent and in-depth reliable and verifiable sourcing from around the globe demonstrates that hrr kidnapping / murder is independently notable. Alansohn (talk) 14:36, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep her death has been individually covered by many sources in enough detail to meet our WP:SIGCOV criterion.VR _talk 17:49, 1 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:RAPID ,clearly well cited passes WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 11:05, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, article is well sourced and this case is a very notable disappearance. Davidgoodheart (talk) 20:26, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I agree that this is an event and is independently notable, passing WP:GNG Donner60 (talk) 23:03, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: At this point, someone should close this AfD, per WP:Snowball clause. RodRabelo7 (talk) 00:29, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.